Technical Tipo 1.4 (160AB55A engine) timer belt part number

[luisgois]

Hi.

It's time to replace both alternator and timer belts (the later already broke up). My Tipo has a 160AB55A engine (number 6998352) and today the guy at the auto store sold the following to my father :

alternator belt : QH QBA863
-- wrong model (has teeth), should be QBA850
timing belt : Federal Mogul AE TB305 (138x15.00mm)
-- can't find this part number at Federal Mogul site

Can anyone here confirm the timing belt part number (or were can I do it myself), please? The closest I got was a Gates' change-over catalog (http://www.automeister.ee/kataloog/gates/E70269ED2005.pdf), where TB305 is equivalent to a Gates' 5177 ... but where this one fits Tomorrow is holiday around here, so I can't go out and get the proper belt and fix my beloved Tipo :bang: Perhaps I should disassemble the old belts and take them to the store on Thursday to avoyd further mystakes, right?

Thanks.
Best regards,
Luis

 

[SteveNZ]

Sorry I dont know the part number. However I do know that all 1.4 and 1.6L SOHC motors have the same cambelt. i.e. Tipo, Uno, Punto, Tempra, Dedra etc etc

 

[Trancendental]

There is a guy called Steve (moderator) on this website who sells Fiat Part CD's VIA ebay for the cost of a blank CD and P&P think you should contact him.

 

[luisgois]

Well, today I had a chance to look at the timing belt. The new one has round teeth but the old one seems to have (more) square teeth. Does anyone knows which kind of teeth does the Tipo cambelt has?

Thanks.
Best regards,
Luis

 

[Trancendental]

If I remember correctly my one (1.6 single point I) has square teeth... but then again that depends on your definition of square.

 

[Hellcat]

http://gordonb.bounceme.net/

online parts catalogue

 

[luisgois]

Hi. Do you have Haynes for Fiat Tipo 1.4 Petrol? Look at page 37 or 38 ... that's my definition of square (though I would call it trapezoidal) Tonight I'll post some fotos of both.

Best regards,
Luis

 

[luisgois]

Hi. The link is broken!

Best regards,
Luis

http://gordonb.bounceme.net/

online parts catalogue

 

[sumplug]

Hi. Do you have Haynes for Fiat Tipo 1.4 Petrol? Look at page 37 or 38 ... that's my definition of square (though I would call it trapezoidal) Tonight I'll post some fotos of both.

Best regards,
Luis

if you give your chassis or engine number to a fiat dealer,they will tell you which belt is specific to your engine.as far as iam aware,all 1.4 engine cars have the same belt whether it be tipo or uno.but check with a dealer.

 

[luisgois]

Today my father went to the auto parts store asking for the right parts and they told him :

- timing belt : the teeth seem round, but it's the right belt
- alternator belt : all new alternator belts have teeth they can be used in cars with no-teeth pulleys; no-teeth belts are no longer sold/made

Below, you can see a crankshaft photo from Haynes (the teeth look "square") and also from the new belts (QBA850 from QH and TB305 from AE/Federal Mogul). Any thoughts? The nearest FIAT representative it's a bit far away and I 'm only available to go there next Saturday morning.

Haynes timing belt (identical to real one)

New timing belt

New alternator belt

Best regards,
Luis

 

[sumplug]

Today my father went to the auto parts store asking for the right parts and they told him :

- timing belt : the teeth seem round, but it's the right belt
- alternator belt : all new alternator belts have teeth they can be used in cars with no-teeth pulleys; no-teeth belts are no longer sold/made

Below, you can see a crankshaft photo from Haynes (the teeth look "square") and also from the new belts (QBA850 from QH and TB305 from AE/Federal Mogul). Any thoughts? The nearest FIAT representative it's a bit far away and I 'm only available to go there next Saturday morning.

Haynes timing belt (identical to real one)

New timing belt

New alternator belt

Best regards,
Luis

they look perfectly alright to me.try phoning the dealer to confirm things.

 

[luisgois]

I read somewhere that a rounded teeth timing belt on a square teeth cam/crankshaft can slip and your engine might be damaged in the process (bent valves, shatered cilinder, etc). So, unless I'm perfectly sure that this TB305 fits, I won't even try it.

Regarding the alternator belt, are you sure I can put one of these on a no-teeth pulley? After all, the contact surface between the belt and the pulley is much smaller than with a no-teeth belt. Won't this belt start sliping more easily?

Thanks.
Best regards,
--
Luis

 

[Trancendental]

well I've got an Alternator belt here (origninal Fiat) which I never needed to put on. Looks just like yours.

Part Number for it is: 7771530

Description: 6400183061/9 Trans Belt

If thats any help.

If you go to any Garage with your Fiat Chassis Number they can call up Fiat and have to correct parts ordered in for you, alternatively you could buy that CD off Steve for a couple quid and never have to worry again... I lost mine

 

[luisgois]

Hello, hello.

Just replaced both belts ... but it's out of adjustement. Can't make the engine start and sometimes does that "bang" sound. I've followed Haynes to replace the belts. The only thing that didn't happened just like Haynes says are the marks at the timing belt outer side. Only the mark at the crankshaft was properly aligned; I noticed the other mark was near the auxiliary shaft (this one should be at the crankshaft so that the first could be at the camshaft, right?).

After lunch, I'll reassemble the belt just like in the book. Any other tips on how to find the proper timing belt alignment?

By the way, what means engine "pinking" ? I can't find a proper translation to portuguese

Best regards,
Luis

 

[sumplug]

OK,you will have to find top dead centre.take no 1 plug out[nearest camwheel].turn engine around until mark on camwheel matches notch on engine.the crank pulley should be lined up with a mark on the block.with a screw driver feel if the piston is right at the top in the plug hole.if all is not lined up,you will have to re-time the engine.did you set the timing at top dead centre before belt removal? remember it has two revolutions so first time could be 180 degrees out.
pinking is pre ignition.what happens is you get tiny explosions in your cylinder head before the piston has reached top dead centre of the cam.this basically is detonating the head.eventually the engine will get serious damage.

 

[luisgois]

Hi, sumplug.

I'll take it into consideration! Thanks!!!

The belt lost it's teeth around the crankshaft before removal, however, I didn't knew nothing about top dead centre. I just read Haynes and I thought I could do it ...

Here I go to find the top dead!
Best regards,
Luis

 

[sumplug]

do you have a mobile mechanic where you are? if so ithink you should think about using one.if you get the timing wrong,you could break the engine.please consider it.

 

[luisgois]

Hi.

"mobile" mechanic? Yeah ... all mechanics here have cellular phones! Ok ... It's a joke!)) I have a friend who is mechanic (already made some repairs on my Tipo and helped me out changing brake pads, etc but either he's on vacations or I always try to reach him when he's out! Anyway, I want to learn something out of this, and I won't brake this engine, don't worry. I bought this falling apart Tipo 2 years ago just to learn some mechanics and so far it has been great and I prefer to drive it than my everyday car, a Nissan Almera.

Back to Tipo, still no ignition. I've followed Haynes precisely. Everything checks and these are my findings (when I say "behind/ahead alignement", I'm adjusting the camshaft N teeth ahead or behind the alignement markings) :

- camshaft and crankshaft markings aligned : no start; "pfang" sound sometimes
- camshaft 1 teeth ahead : engine starts, very slow rotation and shuts up by itself
- camshaft 2 or 3 teeth ahead : no start and no "pfang"
- camshaft 1 teeth behind alignement : no start

What's the proper procedure? Change teeth ahead/behing alignement (up to how many)? Change carburator/distributor settings?

Cheers,
Luis

 

[sumplug]

dont take this the wrong way,but you need a mechanic.the timing is not correct and i doubt now you will correct it.if it is out,the pistons and valves will meet and valves will get bent,that then means head off for repair.for the cost,get a mechanic.i cannot stress this enough to you. :nono:

 

[luisgois]

The timing is out, but not that out, unless someone has played around with the engine, changed markings, my Haynes book is a forgery, etc. I should just be struggling here with some ignition difierential to a new and therefore shorter and tighter belt, right?

When the belt teeth around the crank pulley where ripped off, of course I've lost all timing references the engine had. And yes, I was lucky when I put the new belt in without checking if top dead centre was ok, but it was!

I won't touch the belt anymore, but what should I do next to adjust ignition timings? Tomorrow morning I'll have a mechanic having a look at it, but anyway, I still want to know what he will do before asking him!