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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #1
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Post T-Jet 120hp 'Chip-tuning'

Hello Everyone,
I am quite happy owner of a new fiat tipo. Got now 22000km. On the first inspection (15000km) dealer basically didn't change filters nor oil... i am very suspicious... but all fine though. running like little snoring kid.

I want to chip tune the car for 250-400eur to add extra 20-30bhp and 40Nm/m torque... that's after initial research. but i have a couple of precautions
1) gearbox feel quite fragile already, shifting is not very precise. Gap between 1 & 2 gear are quite awfull. passenger i kicking their noses to dash boards even with +\- smooth change. It can be smoother, but the acceleration is like turtle...
2) wear of the clutch
3) over-boosting the engine? melt the pistons?

What else can go wrong with T-jet engine?
what i can do better with gearbox to make shifts more precise?

Let me know who done this already. i think we have different gearbox than fiat bravo t-jet??
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #2
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Re: T-Jet 120hp 'Chip-tuning'

I've done it on the Bravo 120hp t-jet.
I've also replaced the turbo ..got 194 on the dyno.

You can make/buy a short shifter for the m32 gearbox...it can be adjustable so you could get better shifts.https://www.fiatforum.com/bravo/3402...t-shifter.html

But some of the bad shifting feeling is caused by the thin gearbox oil that doesn't slow down the syncros enough.. just give it an extra half second before putting it in the next gear..
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #3
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Re: T-Jet 120hp 'Chip-tuning'

Thanks Aurick!
Generally, it should be alright to chip/remap it if drive 'normaly'?! By normaly i mean not to to go to red zone on cold start, do not do track days.
Short shifter will come later, when it's out of warranty. About the gear box. Should i changed oil to more heavy oil? Last quicky for your Aurick. What's your milage now and how often you change oil, filters, spark plugs?
thanks,
roman
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #4
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Re: T-Jet 120hp 'Chip-tuning'

Gearbox, just make sure you do regular oil changes on it.. like every 60k km.
There are so many people with different ideas on how to make it last .. but i'm not sure... one thing that might help with bearings is to keep the gearbox cooler. People that track the gearbox (on Astras with 300-400hp) install pumps and oil coolers and thus seem to have solved most problems.

My car has ~200k km now... tuned for 11k km
Still on original gearbox bearings, on the third clutch, 3rd or 4th set of front shocks, at least 2nd rear shocks.
Before tuning i would replace the oil(and filters) every 15-20 k km.
Now i'll do it every 10-15 k km.
Spark plugs every 30k km (as recommended)
Keep in mind i don't track it .. but i am pretty hard on it, for example: multiple trips 10 hour long with 7-8 hours at 140 km/h.
Regularly use all the available rpms.

There seems something is going wrong in the drive train, it might be the driveshafts, the DMF or the gearbox bearings... but it's still to small to worry about. Basically i can feel/hear a faint clunk when releasing the clutch.
The CV axles could do with repacking with a good quality grease.

I replaced the gearbox oil ~40-50 k km ago.
If i ever need to do the gearbox bearings, i will try a little thicker oil 75w90.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #5
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Re: T-Jet 120hp 'Chip-tuning'

Aurick, good to hear such a review! I will see how it goes and if dealer gives green a light with warranty i will remap it in mid december. I do around 35k a year. With 5% fuel savings it will be already 220eur in a year. Current consumption 8l/100km mixed drive. In the end remap will buy it self out.

Shock abosrbers i guess have much to do with road quality...

When i do long drives i usually dont turn the engine off at tank stations, so the turbo cools off a bit and bearings stay lubricated.

When make my mind. I will keep everyonee updated.

Ps: strangly, fiat dealer was very open, when i ask if i can service it myself for example or tint windows anywhere or put trailer hook. No restrictions at all. So far i assume that there wont be restriction with remap as well. But not 100%
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #6
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Re: T-Jet 120hp 'Chip-tuning'

Quote Originally Posted by romanche View Post
Ps: strangly, fiat dealer was very open, when i ask if i can service it myself for example or tint windows anywhere or put trailer hook. No restrictions at all. So far i assume that there wont be restriction with remap as well. But not 100%
Don't remap it while in warranty!!!
Service the car as per the schedule as required (by Fiat or an authorized mechanic)
Never believe crap that comes out of dealer's mouth. If it's not in writing it never happened.
Any actual problem and you will not be covered by the warranty ....and they would be completely right; because a bad tune can easily ruin an engine.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #7
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Re: T-Jet 120hp 'Chip-tuning'

https://www.squadra-tuning.nl/

They know what they're doing....!!
(Be aware, there are a lot of tuning cowboys, even in our small country...!!)
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Last edited by Peter Pick-Up; 3 Weeks Ago at 12:22.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #8
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Re: T-Jet 120hp 'Chip-tuning'

Quote Originally Posted by aurick86 View Post
I've done it on the Bravo 120hp t-jet.
I've also replaced the turbo ..got 194 on the dyno.

You can make/buy a short shifter for the m32 gearbox...it can be adjustable so you could get better shifts.https://www.fiatforum.com/bravo/3402...t-shifter.html

But some of the bad shifting feeling is caused by the thin gearbox oil that doesn't slow down the syncros enough.. just give it an extra half second before putting it in the next gear..
As far as I know, Fiat dropped the M32 for the Tipo and are using the C635 (with 6-speed) and C510 (with 5-speed).
Likes romanche liked this post
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #9
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Re: T-Jet 120hp 'Chip-tuning'

Possible, but until somebody goes out to t-jet tipo, and makes a few pictures of the gearbox, then posts them on the forum, i will just assume it's wishfully thinking.

I am not against it .. i would like the possibility to replace the m32 ****box
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #10
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Re: T-Jet 120hp 'Chip-tuning'

I have a Doblo T-Jet and did quite a lot of research on the tuning possibilities, including hardware upgrades pushing it to 300hp.

You really don't have to worry about blowing up the engine due to stress, people only start preventive internal work on them well beyond 200hp, which you'll never reach on stock hardware.
About 150hp/250Nm is what you could expect out of a T-Jet 120 without upgrading the turbo, injectors, and/or camshafts.

Just go to a proper tuner who respects the limitations of the hardware, as even a mild tune can blow an engine if it's running too lean or predetonates.

I don't know about the Tipo, but in case of my Doblo a completely stock T-Jet 120 is actually not underpowered in higher gears, it's the extreme limitations in the software up to 3rd gear (to score good on emissions probably) that makes it feel and launch sluggish.

Stephan from Squadra Tuning is now examining the software of my Doblo to hopefully soon remove all those limitations (no extra power) and load it back into my ECU.
He already tinkered a bit with it when he downloaded the software from my ECU and removed the extreme torque limitation in 1st (only 105Nm!), and it now definitely gets going from standstill a lot more decisively. I now really have to launch with the clutch, tyres, and road conditions in mind, whereas before I could (and had to) basically launch like a wannabe street racer in the wet without drama.
2nd and 3rd is still sluggish, but as mentioned this is being examined as we speak and will hopefully soon be solved as well.

He had to open up my ECU in order to do this though, so I would wait at least a year before doing this, and meanwhile have a chat with your dealer about chiptuning.
I of course lost my warranty on my ECU, but my dealer knows about this and doesn't mind, so if anything else goes wrong within warranty it'll get fixed. Most dealers aren't that way though and if it depended on Fiat they would even void the warranty on your radio or wiper motor because of a remap!

Maintenance wise, I really don't believe in 30k km oil changes. I do mine every 10k km and the initial oil and filter even got changed after only 2.5k km.
This is probably overkill and I do this because I run my car hard on LPG fuel, but if you are already past the 15k km mark I would insist on changing the oil asap!

My maintenance shedule:
Every 10k:
- oil change
- check-up
Every 20k:
- wheel balance
- wheel rotation
- cleaning out the rear drums
Every 30k:
- oil filter
- interior filter
- cleaning my after market air filter
Future:
Every 60k (same for me):
- brake fluid
Every 120k:
- timing belt kit
- transmission fluid (but now I read that's late?)
- power steering fluid

I don't know what gearbox you have, but the 6spd in my Doblo isn't the greatest either. However my dealer is comfortable with the remapping and I'm sure he'll do a word with Fiat if it should break prematurely outside of warranty (only 2yr on a Doblo).

The clutch is on me though and I'm affraid mine won't last long as it already felt weak from day one, but I'll get an upgraded built one when the stock one fails.

If your dealer isn't agreeing on chiptuning (Fiat definitely isn't!) and you're not comfortable voiding (part of/your entire) warranty: don't do it.
If you want to do it: seek out a proper experienced tuner, not one who claims the biggest numbers and does your car between a Renault and a Toyota.

But whatever you do: please at least change your oil, and I would recommend changing out that initial oil filter as well.

Greetings,
Isabelle
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #11
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Re: T-Jet 120hp 'Chip-tuning'

Quote Originally Posted by Candisa View Post

I don't know about the Tipo, but in case of my Doblo a completely stock T-Jet 120 is actually not underpowered in higher gears, it's the extreme limitations in the software up to 3rd gear (to score good on emissions probably) that makes it feel and launch sluggish.
That is there to protect the gearbox and to keep the car on the rod.
Just imagine doing a hard launch on dry street with really good sticky tires... the gearbox wouldn't stand a change... and you would probably end up in a ditch.
It's called "boost by gear" basically ALL turbo cars use it.
It should be pretty easy to find that map in the software, and easy to modify.... but i insisted with my tuner to not modify it. i still want to be able to move the car on slightly wet/frozen roads....even so because of maps interfering with each other.. the car overboosts a bit more in 1st,2nd gears ...can easily spin one of the tires anytime.

Quote Originally Posted by Candisa View Post
He had to open up my ECU in order to do this though, so I would wait at least a year before doing this,
There are interfaces out there that can do all that without opening up the ECU. Mine was read , modified only through the OBD2 port.

Quote Originally Posted by Candisa View Post
I of course lost my warranty on my ECU, but my dealer knows about this and doesn't mind, so if anything else goes wrong within warranty it'll get fixed. Most dealers aren't that way though and if it depended on Fiat they would even void the warranty on your radio or wiper motor because of a remap!

Quote Originally Posted by Candisa View Post
My maintenance shedule:
Every 10k:
- oil change
- check-up
Why not replace the oil filter while you're there .. it's only ~5 euro more.

Quote Originally Posted by Candisa View Post
Every 120k:
- timing belt kit
Do the timing belt sooner, every 60k /4 years.(including the water pump)

Quote Originally Posted by Candisa View Post
If you want to do it: seek out a proper experienced tuner, not one who claims the biggest numbers and does your car between a Renault and a Toyota.
The fact that your tuner had to open up the ECU shows he doesn't have the best interface.

Quote Originally Posted by Candisa View Post
I of course lost my warranty on my ECU, but my dealer knows about this and doesn't mind, so if anything else goes wrong within warranty it'll get fixed.
In best case scenario: you lost the warranty of the ECU and everything it connects to: all the electrical system, the engine etc.

Try telling them " I have a misfire, is that covered by the warranty? even if i have had the ECU remapped?"
They will say something like this: "We need to investigate it"... and after you pay for the investigation ... "It seems the ECU remap has caused some serious problems to the engine, cannot be covered by the warranty"
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Last edited by aurick86; 2 Weeks Ago at 15:26.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #12
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If the gearbox can't handle 206Nm in low gears, I'll have it rebuilt properly and the Doblo will be my first and last ever FCA car. Diesel engines put down higher numbers than that for decades without limiting.
There's an easy way to drive off on wet or icy roads, it's also kind of a limiter: don't floor it.

I am not a chiptuner, nor do I know anything about it, all I know is that Stephan from Squadra is well known for knowing what he's doing with Italian cars. When I contacted him he needed my VIN, based on that he told me he didn't have the original software from my ECU. When he opened up my ECU he said it was needed to get the software on the newer Euro6 cars.
If you think he's not doing a good job because of this or you have a tip for him, I won't stop you from contacting him.

I don't replace the oil filter every oil change because it is apparently hard to get to. There are covers over it that are bolted on and a PITA to remove and reinstall.
If it were up to Fiat they'd even let the oil itself in there for 30k and the filter really doesn't look bad when it comes out after 30k, so I don't worry about it.

I'm talking in kilometers, 60k for a timing belt really seems soon and a whole lot sooner than Fiat says, that would be every 2 years for me and officially make it the most expensive car to keep on the road, which says a lot considering my lack of luck with second hand cars in the past.

My dealer knows about the ECU remapping and only took away the warranty on the clutch plate and the ECU itself, he actually recommended Squadra to me. That's why I say: talk to your dealer about it.
Fiat only does investigations themselves in extreme cases, normally they leave it to the dealer to figure out if something may have caused a premature failure.

Greetings,
Isabelle
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Last edited by Candisa; 2 Weeks Ago at 15:55.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #13
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Re: T-Jet 120hp 'Chip-tuning'

On a lot of Fiat and Alfa DOHC engines, the timingbelt interval has been reduced from 120.000 to 60.000km indeed.

An oil change without oil filter is just not very wise, it's an easy and inexpensive change after all.

If your car is equiped with a MultiAir unit do change the MultiAir filter every ~30.000km as well, often overlooked, and cause for many MA failures...
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Re: T-Jet 120hp 'Chip-tuning'

Well, I'm not too happy about the oil filter lasting 30k either, so I'll look into it if it could be made easier to replace, my mechanic seems to struggle with them on some T-Jet cars including Doblo.

I'll ask about that timing belt, that would really suck if I need to get it replaced every 60k.
I know another Doblo T-Jet that comes to my dealer does 100k a year and he does it just once a year, he does 15k on his oil but also replaces the filter only every 30k...
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #15
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Re: T-Jet 120hp 'Chip-tuning'

Find another (better) mechanic, or.....do the oil+ filter change yourself.
No big deal.
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