General Zero Star NCAP

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General Zero Star NCAP

Interesting - but this is like comparing apples to oranges!

As the article states this is a case of an older model being tested to the up to the minute standards. The Grande Punto was as safe as it could be when launched and assuming you are driving a Grande, Evo or Punto that is in good condition with all features working and no serious corrosion then you are as safe today as you were driving it when the thing was built.

Its the test that has moved on, the Punto will be phased out pretty soon and whatever replaces it (assuming something does) will score higher in the test. I have also read somewhere that a 5* is now much harder to get in any case - Duster are quoted as a 3* in the article.
 
Interesting.... I have also read somewhere that a 5* is now much harder to get in any case - Duster are quoted as a 3* in the article.

As far as i understand cars need a lot of passive safety systems for others, pedestrians and drivers. (automatic braking, lane keeping, radar cruise..etc)

The Duster has:
- user settable speed limiting (as if somebody would use this)
- rear seatbelt buzzer;
- dead spots monitoring (or cameras..something)
- it's taller.. so it will be better in pedestrian impact (higher bonnet better impact force distribution)

What i would point out.. most are systems cheap to implement.
Fiat can easily implement speed limiting (software update)
Dead spot monitoring.. add some cameras as standard.
Seat belt buzzer.. just add a few weight sensors.

To me it feels like cheating the actual test.
 
My 2006 1.2 Active already has user settable speed limiting. It's in the handbook - see page 19: https://www.fiatforum.com/downloads.php?do=file&fileid=419

That is only a buzzer: " When this limit is exceeded, the driver is immediately alerted".

On the newer Dacias you can actually set a max speed limit.. and the car won't go over that (even if you press the accelerator more).... yah somehow that is considered a good thing.

I drove one for work for a few weeks, last year... i'm not sure if it would disengage if you floor it... if not that is incredibly dangerous.
 
That is only a buzzer: " When this limit is exceeded, the driver is immediately alerted".

On the newer Dacias you can actually set a max speed limit.. and the car won't go over that (even if you press the accelerator more).... yah somehow that is considered a good thing.

I drove one for work for a few weeks, last year... i'm not sure if it would disengage if you floor it... if not that is incredibly dangerous.

I agree I'm not sure I'd like to be in a position where I had a computer set terminal speed. The GP's buzzer seems a much safer option to me
 
I must admit, for a while now, I've often thought that the star rating itself is meaningless, and if the actual crash test results are ok, with no risk of serious injury, I'd still buy the car in question.

I've owned a Grande for over 3 and a half years now, and with this being published, I'd still buy the current model.
 
I must admit, for a while now, I've often thought that the star rating itself is meaningless, and if the actual crash test results are ok, with no risk of serious injury, I'd still buy the car in question.

I've owned a Grande for over 3 and a half years now, and with this being published, I'd still buy the current model.

It seems you change your tune to suit yourself on this one.

Nah: I wouldn't even buy a previous model Panda, due to the 3 star ncap rating!

Punto now a 0 Star car (more on that in a minute)

Fiat Grande Punto 1.4 8v Eleganza

For me personally, the best car on this planet, ~ Feels very reassuringly safe, with 6 airbags, ABS with EBD, and the knowledge of a 5 star Euro NCAP rating.

Well it simply doesn’t anymore, back when the grande was first tested it was a 5 star car but by comparison now is very much moved a long way down the leader board/dropped off the bottom.

Now before you say it (as you already did)

That result is mainly because of the lack of nanny devices that ncap love so much. The actual crash safety itself is still fairly good.

Oh and

Oh, don't worry, I'll continue to feel safe in my Grande: its passive safety is good, and tbh,

The actual crash safety data taking the gadgets out of the equation, it still performed very very badly, to the extent that even a fiat 500 a 3 star car under the current system did significantly better. As did the tipo as a 3 star car

Even a Chinese built MG Zs put it to shame.

Whether or not you decide to carry on feeling safe is entirely up to you, it only becomes a problem in an accident so doesn’t matter if you don’t have an accident, however by modern standards the punto has very much had its day.

NCAP gave it a 2 star rating having factored out the gadgets, this has been more then enough in the past for fiat to kill off a model, it’s not good for the reputation of a company to have the lowest scoring and therefore most ‘unsafe’ car in the NCap score board.
 
Even in the offset test, there was still no risk of serious/fatal injury, hence I feel safe. Had they tested a Punto with side and curtain airbags, then it would've had a higher passive safety score. The previous model Panda scored 3 stars on the original system, not the current one. On the new system, a car can have good passive safety, but if it doesn't have lots of electronics fitted as standard, it'll still only score 3 stars. Hence, I don't go by the star rating these days.
 
Even in the offset test, there was still no risk of serious/fatal injury, hence I feel safe.

Ncap do not make statements like “no risk of serious/fatal injury”


Let’s look at what the report actually said

“The passenger compartment of the Punto remained stable in the frontal offset test. Dummy readings indicated good protection of the knees and femurs of both the driver and passenger but structures in the dashboard were thought to present a risk of injury to occupants of different sizes and to those sat in different positions.”

So the standardised dummies did well in this test without significant injuries to lower limbs, however because of hidden structures behind the dash people of differing shapes and sizes might not fare so well.


“Protection of the passenger's chest was rated as marginal, based on dummy readings of compression.”

This is not good any trauma to the chest can result in serious injury to the heart and lungs. A lung contusion is not good and lungs bleed very easily and can quickly cause a collapse of the lung and an inability to breath.

“In the full-width rigid barrier test, protection of the chest of the rear passenger was weak, and that of the neck was marginal. Protection of the driver was good or adequate for all critical body regions. In the side barrier test, chest protection was rated as marginal, based on rib compressions.”

Lots of “marginal” comments it’s worth noting few cars get marginal comments these days and back when the grande was given 5 stars they didn’t even consider whiplash protection. On the new test however...

“Tests on the front seats and head restraints demonstrated poor whiplash protection in the event of a rear-end collision. A geometric assessment of the rear seats indicated marginal whiplash protection.”


Had they tested a Punto with side and curtain airbags, then it would've had a higher passive safety score.

Just to answer your point here.

“A side pole test was not performed as the Punto does not have a standard-fit head protecting airbag.”

So the test for this was not performed and the lack of side airbags was not counted against the car. Side airbags don’t actually do a lot, essentially protect you from the windows, with a narrow cushion. That said it’s probably just as well it didn’t have the side airbags as when the grande was oringinally tested there were problems with the curtain airbags fouling the b-pillar and not providing full protection

The point made about the about the panda is that you can directly compare the grande in 2005 and the pre 2009 panda as they were tested to the same standard around the same time.
A couple of years ago you were happy to tout your 5 star car and diminish an equivalent 3 star car as “unsafe”

Now faced with new data that your car by modern standards isn’t even a 3 star car, 2 star at best if you just look at the figures for occupant safety and don’t factor in the driver aids, you twist you views to suggest the 5 star rating you used to rant about now doesn’t mean anything.

Well of course it means something otherwise why would they do it.

In that sector there is now no other car that performs as badly for adult occupant protection regardless of what other things you try to factor in. The side airbags were not tested and therefore where not factored into the outcome.

What the new test does highlight is that there were several things that didn’t used to be looked at that are still important, now with looking at these things it shows that the 5 star ratings given to cars weren’t really up to the job, and the cars were not as safe as first stated.

Worth noting my car does not have curtain airbags, but was still a 5 star car by more modern standards, and mine was pole tested because there was no other option it has no roof therefore no curtain bags
 
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Not being funny here, but if the risk of life threatening injuries was that severe, NCAP would have picked up on it back when the original Grande was launched, and the 5 star result would not have been issued at the time. I can recognise that times have changed, but that does not make the car unsafe.
 
My local BBC TV ran this story
Covering Thatcham..where these tests occur.

Apparently it was £12k punto...bottom of the spec heap..
No lane assist..but also NO ABS..!!

The last time they tested the car structure was 2005... early GP..12 years ago.

The dash rating poorly is a bit odd ..surely that is post 2010 (evo)

Im sure its safer than our 2004 panda..and therefore many pop500's..
Just because you have a little room away from structures.

Although of course..thats room for acceleration of limbs..

A bit like those that drive 2feet from your bumper at 70 mph.. it'll lessen the impact.. ;)
 
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AFAIK: they especially test the bottom spec models.
Obviously any other optional safety features will improve things.
 
What country would a Punto of that spec be sold? In the UK, even the most basic Punto you can buy still has ABS, ESP and 4 airbags. I assume that would be the same throughout most of Europe.
 
What country would a Punto of that spec be sold? In the UK, even the most basic Punto you can buy still has ABS, ESP and 4 airbags. I assume that would be the same throughout most of Europe.

The car they tested is a standard Italian car.

Window airbags are an option, abs and asr are standard as they are on all European cars.
 
Not being funny here, but if the risk of life threatening injuries was that severe, NCAP would have picked up on it back when the original Grande was launched, and the 5 star result would not have been issued at the time. I can recognise that times have changed, but that does not make the car unsafe.

I agree with the basis of this comment. If buying new the low relative rating is a significant issue though. A lot of the things that make a new car a 5* vehicle seem more nice ot haves than must haves. The long term affect on reliability of all this electronic stuff is well known, nd I have no reason to suspect that the safety gear will be any more reliable than other electronics. Testing is good but its clear that there is a load of clap tra talked about some of the gadgets.

I want a car that stands up to a crash if necessary without trapping occupants. I like the safety gear but my sons new Mercedes GLC decided it was going to stop him doing more than 10MPH by emergency stopping while underway. This is not a useful safety feature. What they then replaced to get it working again beggar'd belief. New dash and steering column. SO my view is read the results of the tests in relation to injuries in a crahs and then consider very carefully what else is actually really safe.

Autonomous cars. NO THANKYOU. Not yet,not by a very long chalk.
 
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