Technical X250 Ducato 2.3JTD Alternator fault

[dasilva]

I have 2008 Ducato 2.3JTD and just suddenly it stopped charging. After few days of not using I started the engine and the revs started to go up and few minutes later the charging light went on.

Unfortunately the alternator is not in the most "service friendly" position. Can anyone help me with removing the alternator. I mean what is the easiest way to access to top bolt (what do I need to remove). As I have not too experienced with this type of engine I would like to understand better how the tension adjustment wheel should work as well.

I downloaded the eLearn catalogs but for some reason they are not working in my Windows 7. Cannot get forward from the start screen. Can only select the motor and language but then nothing...

Many thanks in advance for any great tips or documents

 

[Peter James]

All the front panels, headlights etc are bolted on, and can be taken off for maintenance like removing the alternator. The drive belts are stretch to fit - no adjustment. There is a special tool for stretching them on, but some people manage to do it with a screwdriver without causing damage.

 

[Sirrom56]

I have 2008 Ducato 2.3JTD and just suddenly it stopped charging. After few days of not using I started the engine and the revs started to go up and few minutes later the charging light went on.

Unfortunately the alternator is not in the most "service friendly" position. Can anyone help me with removing the alternator. I mean what is the easiest way to access to top bolt (what do I need to remove). As I have not too experienced with this type of engine I would like to understand better how the tension adjustment wheel should work as well.

I downloaded the eLearn catalogs but for some reason they are not working in my Windows 7. Cannot get forward from the start screen. Can only select the motor and language but then nothing...

Many thanks in advance for any great tips or documents

Hi I have the same issue with the battery light coming on and the idle speed increasing, did a new aleternator cure this for you?

Regards

Sirrom56

 

[Peter James]

Hi I have the same issue with the battery light coming on and the idle speed increasing, did a new aleternator cure this for you?

Regards

Sirrom56

May be worth checking the earth strap connecting the engine to the bodywork is sound - a bad earth can do all sorts of funny things. There is a thread on it somewhere in this Ducato section. I have fitted an additional earth strap to mine as a precaution.

 

[dasilva]

Hi All,

Thanks for the great tips! Checked and measured and cleaned all groundings and no help from there

I ordered new brush/regulator package but unfortunately it didn't help either. Now the next step is that I will remove the whole alternator but like mentioned earlier it is not in most 'service friendly' position.

I'll keep you posted how it goes. If I succeed as I have planned I may be able to remove it without taking thee whole front in to pieces. Getting it back might be more difficult. Once done I will update the thread for future

Br,
Dasilva

 

[Peter James]

Good Luck. The manual says you need to remove the exhaust intermediate section and bottom stone guard. If you don't have the tool to stretch the belt on I guess you would need to remove the front wing as well. But sometimes you don't have to remove as much as it says in the manual because they tend to give the same instructions for all versions - eg the 3 litre with even less space under the bonnet.
Have you seen the elearn manual - click link to go to thread https://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/310631-workshop-manual-2007-ducato.html

 

[dasilva]

Thanks a lot! I made this same conclusion that I need to remove the exhaust. I downloaded the elearn manual but for some reason it didn't work. I burned it to disk and I can get in to start screen to select engine type but then nothing. I checked the log file and it is saying in Italian that data not available. Don't know what is wrong...

 

[moodrater]

is it looking at the correct path for the data, it only looks on the drive letter it was installed on. Check the contents of the folder see if the data is actually there may be a bad burn. Older elearn disk worked better in xp. If you're on windows 7 you could try xp mode or on vista right click and click properties and run in xp compatibility mode or try run as administrator.

 

[dasilva]

Thanks for these tips! I tried to run as Windows XP mode and as administrator. I tried with burned disk and now as virtual CD directly from the image. Still the same issue from start screen.

This is what I got from log file:
25.11.2012 17:44:41 N. 53 WHERE=HTML::LoadTextFile SOURCE=eLearnCDROM DESC=Impossibile trovare il file

Here is the screenshot which I cannot get forward. When I click the car image the above entry appears to log.

And DATABASE folder in CD contains 11 .dat files 42-43MB each.

 

[Peter James]

This is the one I am using - but I am using it on Windows XP;
Use the free service there is no charge
go to the web page link below
right click on the blue box that says 'click here to start download from sendspace'
left click on the drop down menu that says 'save link as'
then click save
may take 20 minutes or so to download

web page link: http://www.sendspace.com/file/a74q6x

That will give you a 206MB ZIP File
Unzip the file to a new folder
Burn the CONTENTS of the new folder on to a CD
Take the CD out, re insert it, and the workshop manual should install
This is a full workshop manual for the X2/50 (Ducato 2006 on), engineout, stripdown etc.

 

[Peter James]

Here is an interesting short video showing the fitting of the stretchy belt:
click here :

 

[dasilva]

Hi All! So e food news! Alternator is now on my carage table. Just for future reference and for others with same problem I'll write here the steps I did so far. Once I put things back together, I'll do some photos but apparently I'm doing something wrong there as well as my previous picture did not appear here:

Removing alternator:
1. remove the bottom dust cover from the right hand side (the one covering the belts)
2. Remove the bottom belt tensioner wheel from auxilary belt (I found it to be the easiest way to remove the belt without the risk of damaging it)
3. If tou haven't done it by now, disconnect the battery negative
4. Remove the two pin snap-on connector from alternator, here you start to need some flexible hands
5. remove the +connector from alternator
6. Alternator is attached with three bolts and you need some assistance from above with the top bolt. Wife is good option as she normally has smaller hands than you
7. After you can move the alternator freely you will see the brilliant Italian design and you cannot find a way out.
8. If the locking bolt of exhaust happens to be on the right hand side, you need to losen it a bit so you can turn it away
9. Take two right hand side bolts away which are attaching the power steering pump to engine block (alternator bottom bolt was attached to this same piece). Then losen a bit the third one which is on the left hand side (just behind the drive shaft if you lie on same location where I did). After this third bolt is losen a bit you should be able to turn that piece to clockvise just a bit, but just enough so the alternator comes off.
10. Only way out I found was above the drive shaft and the big plate. There on above the exhaust pipe you'll find the right hole to get it out

I hope this helps someone to spent litlle bit less hour underneath the car than I did this time of year in Finland it is not nice, I can tell...

Once I get the alternator tested and serviced (or new alternator) and it fitted back, I'll post the end result. Hope this all is worth it and fixes the issue...

WBR,
Jani

 

[dasilva]

Hi Again,

Need to apologize that cannot post any images. I finished this alternator project during quite heavy snowstorm so did not want to waste any time for pictures. I wonder if I would have managed to take any photos with my frozen fingers.

Some of you might think that maybe I should have waited until better weathers and I would have done so but I had my tank half full of summer diesel and the forecast was saying that tomorrow we will have -20 C here.

But anyhow the end result was a positive one. I took the alternator to test bench and it was faulty. Luckily my local shop is providing the alternator swap service so in the end of the day I don't know what was wrong. I swapped my defected one to serviced one (with one year warranty) and managed to install it (which was quite much easier when you knew the drill).

I believe you may imagine the great feeling when you start the car with frozen fingers and the multimeter shows 14.4V!!! Rewarder myself yesterday with few Gin-Tonics

I took the car to a test drive yesterday as I had to get my summer diesel away and filled the tank with winter version.

So once again, thank you all for the great help and I hope the last post I made can help someone to spent little less hours under the car compared to me.

Unfortunately I still could not get the eLearn CD to work, but need to keep on trying as I'm sure the next project will follow

 

[dasilva]

One more thing! When putting things back together I noticed that the belt tension wheel was a spring loaded (automatic one). Meaning you can easily remove the auxilary belt with using a 15mm wrench or a crowbar (you can get good grip with crowbar from the tensioner base)...

And as a end result the savings for me was approximately 1000EUR as the local Fiat dealer offered only the option to buy new Bosch Alternator with over 900EUR + the work 200-300 EUR. The fully serviced Bosch from my local was 250EUR... OK, I spent 50EUR for the new brush-regulator package but I have that now for spare...

 

[Peter James]

Thanks for all the info
Sorry to hear of your problems with the workshop manual.
Which link did you download it from?

 

[dasilva]

No probs!

About workshop manual, I downloaded the first version from this forum and also tried the one you posted, Peter. I will try with XP PC at office next week. Home I only have Win 7 or Mac!

 

[Urs42008]

Hi guys

Just wanted to say thanks for the tips in this thread - it helped me a lot. The symptoms on my 2009 1.9 130 Ducato was a bit charging immediately after start (about 10 amps and 13,5-13,8 volts which after a short time (10 seconds to a couple of minutes) fell to about zero amps and battery back to nominal voltage 12.4-12.6 volts. The alternator was about 1 year old, so it should be fine. I connected starter cable to the metal on the alternator and directly to minus, and both the amps and voltage climbed (almost to 14 volts), indicating bad earth somewhere.

I've also noticed a few times the last year or so that the revs suddenly rises to about 1200 rpm, but never given it any thought. After I installed an amp/volt/amphour meter I noticed the lack of charging, and the revs increase when battery voltage is quite low (12.2-12.3 or thereabouts), which probably makes the ecu believe there is a huge load on the alternator, and increases revs to compensate). This normally happened after a while of driving, which would happen when the starter battery has been emptied by powering the driving lights, heater etc, and the alternator has failed to keep the battery topped up.

I cleaned the earth cable link from the battery to the chassis - no change. Cleaned the battery poles - no change. Dismantled (and broke one of the fittings) the earth strap between the engine and chassis - voila. The engine side was totally irrigated, and the reason for the initial charge after start was probably due to the high amperage during a start welds the connector briefly back on, but is soon shaken loose by vibration.

I cleaned up the cable and made a new earth connection and now I get 14.5 on the batteries and measured charge amps at upwards to 70 amps. This is a Dethleffs Globe R motorhome, and now the 150 amp alternator charges the leisure batteries (2x100 ah) at the correct +-20 amps through the ebl 99 Schaudt electroblock

 

[elsa1799]

Thanks for all your help will have a look at it during the week and let you all know.

 

[Techno100]

Only the 4 rib AC compressor drive belt is a stretch one (if you have aircon at all that is)
The alternator 6 rib belt is as pointed out tensioned by the spring loaded tensioner pulley

Picture without aircon of 3.0 litre

 

[Techno100]

Today I finally had the opportunity to fix mine. Replacing the regulator has fortunately for me solved my problem without resorting to the tw@t of a full job. So under £20 sorted