Technical Won't rev when cold

[turnermr]

Hi All

I'm having a starting issue with my 2L disel mulitjet. When the car is cold it takes several turns of the key to get the engine to catch and when it does it wont rev. If you leave it ticking over for 30seconds it then revs and drives perfectly. Restarting when warm is perfectly normal it's just an issue when cold. I've just fitted a brand new 76amp battery and this hasn't made any difference, I've also fitted a new EGR valve as I was getting an intermittent engine management light and the code suggested the EGR. So far the EM light has not come back on. any ideas??
thanks

 

[cris1117]

Sounds like glowplugs, what code do you have?

 

[turnermr]

No code now unfortunately. would the glowplugs bring up a code ?

 

[cris1117]

I would scan the ecu for any historic codes, a cheap obd wi fi interface (£10) and a smart phone will do the job.

 

[turnermr]

I would scan the ecu for any historic codes, a cheap obd wi fi interface (£10) and a smart phone will do the job.

Yea ive got one but there is nothing on there, so dont really have anything to go on

 

[cris1117]

The first thing I would do in your situation would see if power is reaching the glow plugs at the appropriate time with a circuit tester, (things that cost nothing to start with) this may dis-count the glow plug relay being faulty.

If power is O.K glow plugs would be my next thing, cheap enough to buy but can be tricky to fit on some engines.

After that you start getting into diesel specialist who would probably pin it down in 30 minutes but are expensive but still cheaper than throwing new parts randomly at the problem.

 

[turnermr]

I've replaced the glow plugs and the fuel p[ressure regulator valve but I've still got he same issue. Any more ideas guys? I cant get my head around the fact it runs perfectly ok once it has warmed up or has ticked over for 30sec or so. I've even tried heating the filter bowl in case there is a heating element in there. I've tested the tank fuel pressure and thats ok and the highg pressure fuel pump seems to be be ok as it runs perfectly ok once warm. Is there a valve in the hight pressure pump that could be sticking ??

 

[cris1117]

Hi. Did you test the glow plugs relay, is there power going to the new glow plugs?
I cant think of anything else that would cause your problem.

 

[turnermr]

Hi Yes , it all seems to be ok in that area. I have noticed that the fuel pressure drops off quickly but its still doing that when its warm and working ok. Someone mentioned that the injectors my be faulty but again they are ok once warm

 

[daveaclayton]

Hi, I have a 1.6 multijet with what appears to be the same problem, with a couple of minor differences:

1. The engine starts first time everytime, regardless of outside temperature
2. If I turn-off stratight away, it usually runs ok, but not if below around 4degrees
3. It diesels a lot whilst in the non-reving mode
4. no engine fault codes
5. it has done 110K miles and is a 2015 263 van variant.

Things that I have done/tried:

1. Changed the Glow-plugs for new ones (relatively easy fix) - No CHANGE to problem
2. Changed the Glo-Plug controller, as I happend to have a spare one from another car (easyFix) - No CHANGE to problem
3. Changed the Fuel Filter, service record said was changed at last service, Boblox, looks like it had never been chganged! - No CHANGE to problem
4. Changed the coolant & gave it a good flushing, with rad cleaner & hose-pipe - No CHANGE to problem
5. Performed a flow-back test on injectors. Cylinder2 had some 30% more flow-back, than all the rest, (which where all the same).

Things to try:

1. I have bought a pair of used injectors (£60 the pair) and am about to ultrasonically clean them, then will change Cylinder2 and see what happens
2. Considering changing the Coolant Temp sensor, as it takes some 10mins to show a normal working temp. But other than that it appears to work - so not sure about this one

Other known things:

1. It has had a replacement water-pump and timing belt - (reasonably) confirmed by a receipt and the fact that it is noted on a sticker under the bonnet and it wasn't the same lot that alledgedly did the fuel filter!
2. There is a small oil leak from the brake vacuum pump, but I don'think this has any relevance

More than happy to take/ share guidance help

Many thanks
Dave

 

[daveaclayton]

Just looking at 'turnermr' last post - about injectors. I also read this moring that it is likely to be the injector(s) not misting correctly, possbly one or more blocked holes. This apparantly is less of a propblem when warm.

This kind of makes sense in my case as mine is usually fixed by a quick restart - Just got to find the time to clean the injectors. I will then report back...Might be a week or so as rather busy!

 

[turnermr]

Hi, I have a 1.6 multijet with what appears to be the same problem, with a couple of minor differences:

1. The engine starts first time everytime, regardless of outside temperature
2. If I turn-off stratight away, it usually runs ok, but not if below around 4degrees
3. It diesels a lot whilst in the non-reving mode
4. no engine fault codes
5. it has done 110K miles and is a 2015 263 van variant.

Things that I have done/tried:

1. Changed the Glow-plugs for new ones (relatively easy fix) - No CHANGE to problem
2. Changed the Glo-Plug controller, as I happend to have a spare one from another car (easyFix) - No CHANGE to problem
3. Changed the Fuel Filter, service record said was changed at last service, Boblox, looks like it had never been chganged! - No CHANGE to problem
4. Changed the coolant & gave it a good flushing, with rad cleaner & hose-pipe - No CHANGE to problem
5. Performed a flow-back test on injectors. Cylinder2 had some 30% more flow-back, than all the rest, (which where all the same).

Things to try:

1. I have bought a pair of used injectors (£60 the pair) and am about to ultrasonically clean them, then will change Cylinder2 and see what happens
2. Considering changing the Coolant Temp sensor, as it takes some 10mins to show a normal working temp. But other than that it appears to work - so not sure about this one

Other known things:

1. It has had a replacement water-pump and timing belt - (reasonably) confirmed by a receipt and the fact that it is noted on a sticker under the bonnet and it wasn't the same lot that alledgedly did the fuel filter!
2. There is a small oil leak from the brake vacuum pump, but I don'think this has any relevance

More than happy to take/ share guidance help

Many thanks
Dave

Hi Dave, It certainly seems like we have a similar problem. Mine very rarely starts first time it always coughs when I turn the key but sometimes I will have to do it 4 times to get it to run. It does seem to start easier in the warmer weather but not always.
Having spoken to a few mechanics they all initially said glow plugs which I have changed and made no difference. Fuel filter which I am about to change (but I dont think that will make a difference), Injectors or fuel pump.

The only other thing I noticed is that the fuel pressure drops very quickly but then I suppose its going to drop quickly when its warm and running ok.

After the fuel filter change I going to take it to a local diesel garage who can test the injectors etc as that will probably be cheaper than throwing more parts at it. Let me know how you get on , I will also Thanks Mark

 

[daveaclayton]

IF you have the test kit try the leak-back test - that is a good indicator. I have one that is worse than the other 3 and subsequent evidence is pointing to this as the problem.

Yup - I will advise when I have done it. (hoping to at least clean one of the 2nd hand injectors this week). Subsequent fitment/swap-out really depends on how 'stuck' the injector is. Right now the cylinder head looks really clean, so there is probably little dirt to cause a problem.

Good look on the Fuel filter, but I suspect you have the same problem as me - is fo, then that won't solve it.

Keep in touch.

Dave

 

[turnermr]

IF you have the test kit try the leak-back test - that is a good indicator. I have one that is worse than the other 3 and subsequent evidence is pointing to this as the problem.

Yup - I will advise when I have done it. (hoping to at least clean one of the 2nd hand injectors this week). Subsequent fitment/swap-out really depends on how 'stuck' the injector is. Right now the cylinder head looks really clean, so there is probably little dirt to cause a problem.

Good look on the Fuel filter, but I suspect you have the same problem as me - is fo, then that won't solve it.

Keep in touch.

Dave

Hi Dave, well the fuel filter made no difference so i had the whole fuel system checked by a diesel specialist and they could not find any faults but have suggested it needs an ECU software upgrade. I contacted Fiat and they have confirmed there is a later version and they will apply it for free. Ill let you know what happens

 

[Bigbang]

Hi did anyone find out what was the problem I have the same trouble would be very interested in any fixes. Cheers

 

[koalar]

Hi did anyone find out what was the problem I have the same trouble would be very interested in any fixes. Cheers

no idea

To me this thread appears to have gone down a few blind alleyways

Needs a software update to fix a problem that occurred after it’s been Running fine long enough to block the EGR doesn’t seem right in my head

B STARTING - Fiat - DUCATO - eLearn - 4CarData

As starting place

Maybe ?

 

[SpecRam]

Mam rozwiązanie tego problemu, winna jest w sterowniku silnika a naprawa łatwa, wystarczy zimne luty poprawić i układ bga na nowo przelutować

 

[koalar]

Mam rozwiązanie tego problemu, winna jest w sterowniku silnika a naprawa łatwa, wystarczy zimne luty poprawić i układ bga na nowo przelutować

I'd hope it's fixed by now 2.5 years latter

I have a solution to this problem, the fault lies in the engine controller and the repair is easy, just fix the cold solder joints and re-solder the BGA system

Not sure I understand the logic


As far as I am aware there's no BGA

To come to any conclusions with any certainty you have to diagnose a problem

Taking a pint on a donkey approach can work but you have to be very lucky

 

[SpecRam]

Mam nadzieję, że po 2,5 roku to już będzie naprawione

Mam rozwiązanie tego problemu, usterka leży w sterowniku silnika, a naprawa jest prosta, wystarczy naprawić zimne luty i ponownie przylutować układ BGA

Nie jestem pewien, czy rozumiem logikę


O ile wiem, nie ma BGA


View attachment 469601

Aby dojść do jakichkolwiek wniosków z całą pewnością, trzeba zdiagnozować problem

Podejście polegające na wypiciu kufla na ośle może zadziałać, ale trzeba mieć dużo szczęścia

 

[SpecRam]

Najwyraźniej nie rozbierales i nie naprawiales, nie wiesz o czym mówisz, daje rozwiązanie a Ty gadasz głupoty, juz dwa samochody naprawione, fiat doblo i opel combo