General Which Panda is which ??

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General Which Panda is which ??

petel

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Have recently been noticing some confusion as to the question of what constitutes a Mk1/Mk2/Mk3 and The New Panda. One dealer on Ebay refers to all Panda's up to 2003 as Mk1 and the New Panda as a Mk2. Similar diferences have also been noted on Fiat Forum postings. This creates some head scratching on my part and presumably on the part of other Forum contributors.

I should state at this point, re the Panda and the New Panda, that as far as I am concerned it is not a case of " This is the Fiat Panda ( the New one ) and that ( with a dismissive wave of the hand ) is the old one " it is a case of " This is the Fiat Panda and that ( dimissive wave ) is the New one.

In order to obtain some consensus on this question, I would wish to put forward my definitions and to see if contributors agree with me.

Panda Mk1. 1980 to 1984 with quarter light windows and the metal front grille. This group consists of the Panda 30, Panda 34, the Panda 45 with the 903 pushrod engine and the Mk1 4X4, all having leaf springs at the rear.

Panda Mk2. 1985 to 1991 with the plastic five bar grille, the 900 engine and the various FIRE types, this including the Sisley's and the 999cc Selecta's. Introduction of the Omega rear suspension on all except the 4X4's.

Panda Mk3. 1991 to 2003 ( remembering that importation into UK stopped in 1995 ) having the plastic grille with the heavier top bar. In 1992 the introduction of servo assist for the brakes, Bosch or Webber SPI plus CAT, no more 4X4s and the 1108 FIRE into the Selecta's.

The New Panda. 2003 onwards ( dismissive wave of the hand ) ----- Whatever !

Comments welcomed, Rgds petel
 

JimMagill

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That's pretty good, but my 1995 panda is very differnt to a 1991.... (3 way cat, 1108cc, gray interior, better seats, extra soundproofing and refinement etc)

It's like a Mk3B, hehe!

Jim
 

Steven

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petel said:
as far as I am concerned it is not a case of " This is the Fiat Panda ( the New one ) and that ( with a dismissive wave of the hand ) is the old one " it is a case of " This is the Fiat Panda and that ( dimissive wave ) is the New one.

I can't disagree on a single point here. I love the quote above. :)
 

JimMagill

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petel said:
Panda Mk1. 1980 to 1984 with quarter light windows and the metal front grille. This group consists of the Panda 30, Panda 34, the Panda 45 with the 903 pushrod engine and the Mk1 4X4, all having leaf springs at the rear.

Panda Mk2. 1985 to 1991 with the plastic five bar grille, the 900 engine and the various FIRE types, this including the Sisley's and the 999cc Selecta's. Introduction of the Omega rear suspension on all except the 4X4's.


fiat_panda_1980_01.jpg


Mk1 body... Mk2 grill..... Mmmm

Jim
 

Tony M

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Somehow i feel responsible for this outburst from Petel... I had asked him via PM about the compatibility of a MK1 speedo cable to mate with a selecta engine, as i have one that came in a box of bits... the answer was "very unlikely" thanks for that Petel.

The other problem we all face is that there is even less clarity to which parts are for what year... some of them aren't even recorded for example those Mk3a (b?) rear drum brakes that are adjusted at the omega hinge.

I'm currently polishing up the various parts i have lying around for a Ebay extravaganza but it's going to be interesting deciding what to label them as.
 

panda-sport

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petel said:
Panda Mk1. 1980 to 1984 with quarter light windows and the metal front grille. This group consists of the Panda 30, Panda 34, the Panda 45 with the 903 pushrod engine and the Mk1 4X4, all having leaf springs at the rear.


The Mk1 Panda 45S and some of the MK1 4X4's came with the plastic grille, the first Fiats to use the 5 bar logo. I always liked the metal one the most, will it fit on a MK3?
 

Steven

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I think we have to accept that Fiat are so prone to altering model details for no apparent reason that it will never be clear...
 

pandamonius_maximus

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In my opinion the panda categories are:
Mk 1 - up to 85/6
Mk 2 - 86 up till watever age they brought in that new grill and redesigned the interior
Mk 3 - the ones with the different grills! till the depressing time they stopped making them!

Nice and simple, although they did make so many changes, it is debatable that there is a Mk 2 and 3!

I also agree that the NEW PANDA just aint a panda, where is the rediculous simplicity and charm! Not saying theyre a bad car, but they dont have the charactor. I'm not complaining to much tho, as the introduction of a NEW model just confirms that the panda has become a popular cult car!:D Proving certain critics wrong!

Waaaay to the age of the panda:worship:
lol

Si
 

Steven

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Fiat only decided to call the new Panda a "Panda" when Renault objected to the name they wanted to use, "Gingo".
 
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petel

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Well, it seems that we are all in general agreement here, given that as stated, Fiat are so prone to bringing in parts on certain models and later making them standard across the range. Jim and Vin rightly point out that what I refer to as the Mk2 grille, was first used on two of the Mk1 Panda's but was then made standard across the range in 1986. The change from Mk2 to Mk3 grille also seems to have taken place over a two year period as I have seen J reg cars with either type.

To Tony re the later rear brake types. I think you will find that the very late Panda's have the later rear brake set up because Fiat were introducing the later type to the Punto from 93/94 onwards, so for them it harmonized parts supply.

To Jim. You mention that your Panda is a very late model and has the 1108 FIRE. I take it that it is not a Selecta so there were some manual Panda's with the 1108 in RHD.

To PandaSport re the metal grille. Regret that the metal grille is not suitable for the Mk2 or Mk3 because it was a welded-on part of the worked body at manufacture. Interesting to note also, that the slots in the metal grille move from one side to the other depending on the model.

I fully appreciate that Fiat do not classify the Panda's as Mk1/Mk2/Mk3 and the New, these are my own classifications in my attempts to clarify the types and what parts will fit on which models. In fact, in 85/86 when the Mk1 gave way to the Mk2, Fiat themselves described the Mk2 as the " New Panda "

Contributors will note that a dealer has just listed an oil pump assy on Ebay, describing it as being for the Punto Mk1& 2 and for the Panda Mk1. The pump is for the FIRE type engine which was not used on the Mk1 Panda but as the dealer considers any Panda up to 2003 as being Mk1 and any Panda after 2003 ( New Panda ) to be a Mk2, I feel that this illustrates my point about the need for consensus, --------------- if only amongst ourselves.

Rgds, petel
 

panda-sport

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petel said:
To PandaSport re the metal grille. Regret that the metal grille is not suitable for the Mk2 or Mk3 because it was a welded-on part of the worked body at manufacture. Interesting to note also, that the slots in the metal grille move from one side to the other depending on the model.


My distant (20 years ago) memory remembers one of our two 1981 MK1 pandas had its grille pop riveted on. Memory says I had to remove the head lights to them. Also every plastic item (windscreen grilles, wing mirrors, window winders etc) were of completely different designs! From day one there was no conformity.:eek:


If the slots are on right looking at the car it’s a 45 (water cooled half width radiator), if on the left then air cooled 30 or 34!

From what you say, if I can get the metal grille panel it should be easy to make some mounts. It’s the width and height dimensions I need to check.;)



Cheers Damon
 
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petel

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So he metal grille was pop rivited, I had always been given to understand that it had been welded. Thanks also for the confirmation as to the slot positions.
Rgds, petel
 
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I can also confirm it's pop rivetted as I put a new grill on when restoring the 45. Apparently the plastic grill will fit a 45 (a friend put a plastic one of a Super on his B reg 45CL when he had it as a first car a long time ago)

Metal grill should fit a 'MK2' OK, but the radiator is full width, as opposed to half width, and the airflow through the slats would be restricted.

Vin
 
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petel

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Well if the metal grille will fit on a Mk2, then it should be possible to fit one to a Mk3, as I have already fitted a Mk2 grille to a Mk3. I am after a metal grille at this moment and if I get it, I will be able to compare and establish how much work it would take to fit it to a Mk3. My appologies to Panda Sport for the misinformation
Rgds.
 
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petel

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Hello PandaSport.

I have now obtained a Mk1 metal grille and been able to do a trial fit on a MK3 car. It will be possible but there are considerable differences which may prove too much work. The only part of the Mk1 grille that picks up are the two holes on the centre bracket at the bonnet catch, all the rest would have to have brackets fabricated and added to the MK3's bodywork.

Though the Mk1 grille is as wide as the Mk3's, it is not as high. If set to fit cleanly at the top, there is a substantial gap at the bottom and vice versa. If fitted centrally ( to line up with the headlights ) there is a gap top and bottom. The Mk3 grille fits on top of the centre bracket, secured by the two plastic buttons. The Mk1 grille would have to fit to the underside of the bracket to line up on the headlights and an alternate method of securing would be required.

The grille that I have is for the 903cc car with the grille slots on our passenger side. Although the cooling fan is mounted within the slotted area, the later Panda's having the full length radiator, means that aprox a third of the radiator area would be covered if the MK1 grille was used. If this would create cooling problems would remain to be seen.

If anyone has experimented with this in the past, I would be very interested to hear of the results.
Rgds.
 
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