Technical Wheels hitting arches - offset and hubs?

[cinque500]

Hi all, I’m looking for some advice as I want to lower my ride height but my wheels catch the arches before even attempting. My ‘75 500r has disc brakes at the front with a pcd 98 to 190 adapter. My wheels are 12” with a offset of ET12. At the rear I believe the hubs and drums are std. The fronts stick out way too much, not helped by ET12 and adapter. Rear wheels also catch the arches.Pcd190 wheel designs are a bit limited, I’d prob need ET40 to work at the front and of course that doesn’t exist. So I’m thinking of going pcd98 and ditching the front adapters. But I don’t know how I go about getting pcd98 at the rear?
Any advice gratefully received and appreciated.

 

[Toshi 975]

Hi all, I’m looking for some advice as I want to lower my ride height but my wheels catch the arches before even attempting. My ‘75 500r has disc brakes at the front with a pcd 98 to 190 adapter. My wheels are 12” with a offset of ET12. At the rear I believe the hubs and drums are std. The fronts stick out way too much, not helped by ET12 and adapter. Rear wheels also catch the arches.Pcd190 wheel designs are a bit limited, I’d prob need ET40 to work at the front and of course that doesn’t exist. So I’m thinking of going pcd98 and ditching the front adapters. But I don’t know how I go about getting pcd98 at the rear?
Any advice gratefully received and appreciated.

I have this publication put together by an Aussie guy. I may well have many of the parts you would need.

 

[cinque500]

Thanks Toshi. The guy says the 126 and 500R parts are the same which makes sense as early 126’s were pcd190. So I guess now I need know when did Fiat switch the 126 to pcd98 and are the parts a simple swap?

 

[Toshi 975]

Thanks Toshi. The guy says the 126 and 500R parts are the same which makes sense as early 126’s were pcd190. So I guess now I need know when did Fiat switch the 126 to pcd98 and are the parts a simple swap?

The first series Fiat 126 went from 1972 to 1976. The swap should be a straight nuts and bolt job.

 

[Toshi 975]

Just out of interest is yours the car that paid me a visit in Chesham a few years ago and took me for a short drive. The car was a similar spec to yours and a very impressive performer. Also came from Harrow.

 

[the hobbler]

Just out of interest is yours the car that paid me a visit in Chesham a few years ago and took me for a short drive. The car was a similar spec to yours and a very impressive performer. Also came from Harrow.

The Mk2 126s had 98pcd hubs---the 652cc version. The rear hubs are a straight swap with the 500 units, but you will to disassemble and re-assemble the hub/drive-shaft untits to fit them. On the front I would suggest that you try and get complete hub and kin-pin assemblies as the stub-axle and bearings for the 652cc 126 models are much larger than the 500. Fitment-wise, the king-pin carriers are a straight swap for the 500 units (to the upper wishbone and transverse spring). If you fit a new 'lowered' spring at the front, you will need to check that the mounting 'noddles' on the top leaf are equidistant from the centre of the spring----a LOT of them are not! If you contact me direct ([email protected]) I can send you a copy of the article that I wrote for the "Fiat 500 Enthusiasts Club" magazine on this very subject

 

[cinque500]

Just out of interest is yours the car that paid me a visit in Chesham a few years ago and took me for a short drive. The car was a similar spec to yours and a very impressive performer. Also came from Harrow.

Hi Dave, it is me, how ya doing? Sorry I forgot your forum name. I moved from Harrow to Surrey, 10 mins from Brooklands. Will pm you.

 

[cinque500]

The Mk2 126s had 98pcd hubs---the 652cc version. The rear hubs are a straight swap with the 500 units, but you will to disassemble and re-assemble the hub/drive-shaft untits to fit them. On the front I would suggest that you try and get complete hub and kin-pin assemblies as the stub-axle and bearings for the 652cc 126 models are much larger than the 500. Fitment-wise, the king-pin carriers are a straight swap for the 500 units (to the upper wishbone and transverse spring). If you fit a new 'lowered' spring at the front, you will need to check that the mounting 'noddles' on the top leaf are equidistant from the centre of the spring----a LOT of them are not! If you contact me direct ([email protected]) I can send you a copy of the article that I wrote for the "Fiat 500 Enthusiasts Club" magazine on this very subject

Thanks hobbler, this info is gold. Will pm you, cheers

 

[Bleeding Knuckles]

Hi Cinque, I have 12" wheels with 165x12R60 tyres fitted but I don't have the problem you have. Firstly my wheels (minilight) are of a +28 ET and fit over a modified X1/9 rear caliper with a 210mm cut down disc at the front, The wheels also have two slim spacers on the brake hub to assist with stand out each side, the tyres do rub (just) but only on full lock on a bumpy road. At the rear I have the later 126 larger drum brakes with the wheel straight onto the hub everything is 98pcd. My suspension is lowered by approx 20cm if I recall correctly and probably too soft. I believe that with a stiffer set up the tyres would not rub at all. Any questions please ask.
Ian.

 

[cinque500]

Hi Cinque, I have 12" wheels with 165x12R60 tyres fitted but I don't have the problem you have. Firstly my wheels (minilight) are of a +28 ET and fit over a modified X1/9 rear caliper with a 210mm cut down disc at the front, The wheels also have two slim spacers on the brake hub to assist with stand out each side, the tyres do rub (just) but only on full lock on a bumpy road. At the rear I have the later 126 larger drum brakes with the wheel straight onto the hub everything is 98pcd. My suspension is lowered by approx 20cm if I recall correctly and probably too soft. I believe that with a stiffer set up the tyres would not rub at all. Any questions please ask.
Ian.

Thanks Ian. Really useful to hear your use case. Tbh I don’t know what front hubs I have as the disc brake conversion was already fitted. My spacers add maybe 8mm at a guess. Then my wheels add another 14mm vs yours so I’m already nearly an inch wider without knowing if my hubs stick out more than yours. So all in all there’s my problem. On the rear I’m running I think std springs, hubs and drums and my ET12 wheels hit the arches over large undulations. I tried lower springs once but it was hopeless, I was shredding my tyres! Not much option but to go for new wheels and with the issues at the front end and needing to lose the adapter, a 98 conversion seems the way to go? Happy to hear alternatives though! Thanks

Hi Cinque, I have 12" wheels with 165x12R60 tyres fitted but I don't have the problem you have. Firstly my wheels (minilight) are of a +28 ET and fit over a modified X1/9 rear caliper with a 210mm cut down disc at the front, The wheels also have two slim spacers on the brake hub to assist with stand out each side, the tyres do rub (just) but only on full lock on a bumpy road. At the rear I have the later 126 larger drum brakes with the wheel straight onto the hub everything is 98pcd. My suspension is lowered by approx 20cm if I recall correctly and probably too soft. I believe that with a stiffer set up the tyres would not rub at all. Any questions please ask.
Ian.

 

[Bleeding Knuckles]

Hi Cinque, if you have the 98 to 190 adaptor plus 8mm of spacers AND an offset of ET12 you do have a way to go to get the wheel assembly away from the arch - unless of course you get them flared somewhat. Maybe some new wheels with an ET of +28 will help, any more and you may find the wheel could foul inboard against the suspension. The critical clearance will be between the hub/caliper and the internal wheel wall - it's very close on my set up.
Ian.

 

[cinque500]

Hi Cinque, if you have the 98 to 190 adaptor plus 8mm of spacers AND an offset of ET12 you do have a way to go to get the wheel assembly away from the arch - unless of course you get them flared somewhat. Maybe some new wheels with an ET of +28 will help, any more and you may find the wheel could foul inboard against the suspension. The critical clearance will be between the hub/caliper and the internal wheel wall - it's very close on my set up.
Ian.

Hi Ian. Sorry for confusion, I don’t have a spacer as such. The 8mm I refer to is what I think the adapter plate is, is pretty heavy gauge. I don’t want to flare the arches if I can help it. Hoping by ditching the adapter and going for et28-ish rims I’ll be ok I’ll be furious if I end up fouling the calliper. . Time will tell, eh?