Technical What's wrong with my third gear?

[sharief]

Good afternoon,

To put it bluntly, I can't get into third gear. All the other gears work fine, but I cannot get into third (except when I accelerate hard and keep my foot on the gas as I change up - and even then it usually doesn't work). When I first got the car, the third gear was pretty much fine but every couple of weeks I would try and change up into third and I would hit what can only be described as a "notch" between the position of first and third on the gearstick. All that was required was to move back into neutral and then back into third - I assumed I'd just got the angle wrong.

Now over the past month or so I've found it increasingly difficult to get into third. It start off with the gear "crunching" from second to third. I went to the FIAT dealership to get it checked out, but by the time the booking came around the crunching had stopped so I had to cancel. It came back again so I re-booked, and then it went away again. Then two weeks ago it started crunching from fourth to third as well. I didn't want to re-book because I thought it would go away again (in hindsight this was probably a poor decision). Now whenever I try to go into third it makes a disgusting screeching/scraping/crunching noise. If I do get into third, it only stays in so long as I'm accelerating - if I take my foot off of the gas, it just pops out of gear or the gear stick starts wobbling (which was actually quite amusing, until I realised my car was broken).

The car is a 57 plate Panda 100HP, and is thankfully still under warranty. I always let it get up to temperature before going above 3000rpm, and I've checked oil and coolant and they're both fine. The car is booked in for its 12, 000 mile service on Monday, and I've told them about the gear... But I ws just wondering if anyone knows what may be wrong with my bamboo-eating friend?

Thanks,

Sharief

 

[PNL]

If it jumping out of gear and difficulty getting into gear its usually worn synchro and selector mechanism to blame..new box on the cards for you I recon..

 

[Advanced Driver]

This is interesting, my 100HP is a week old, and has a similar problem. I noticed it the very first time I selected third gear when I let the dealer, but at the time I assumed that I was just pushing it in the wrong place because I was new to the car.

Some times it seems to be perfect, but other times I need a couple of tries, and a bit more force. 4th gear is occasionally a bit difficult to get into, but it's nowhere near as bad.

My plan was to wait a few thousand miles to see what happens (currently on about 250 miles). It looks like I may need to take it to the dealer for some work

 

[trackdayqueen]

Either a selector problem (ie needs some alignment). Or more likely syncro is shagged.

I've had 3rd gear syncro go on other cars i've had. The symptoms you describe sounds exactly like a shagged syncro. Only option is to replace the syncromesh. On such a new car it sounds like 3rd was never selecting properly. If it's not going fully home on the selector then this will cause premature wear of the dog teeth. This happened to my old MK1 SC (not the car in the link) mainly because I had some issues with the gear cable so the selector wasn't fully home which obviously loads the dog teeth more (think like a not quite engaged cog).

I also had this happen on 5th gear on my old mk1 mr2 though this was a 20 year old car and they are renowned for it. To see what may have happened to your's see this:

http://www.mr2.net/trackdayqueen/fithgear.htm

I have a sneaking suspicion that 3rd gear is a likely weak point on the 100hp. Though i've had no issues as such myself.

 

[Advanced Driver]

What would you recommend I do tdq (or somebody else), get fixed (warranty) ASAP or leave a few thousand miles?

 

[HP]

Get it back to the dealer. The gear change should be as sweet as can be.

 

[trackdayqueen]

Get it back to the dealer. The gear change should be as sweet as can be.

DING.

 

[Advanced Driver]

Get it back to the dealer. The gear change should be as sweet as can be.

One of the problems I have is that it is sometimes perfect, so I can't be certain that it will happen when it goes to the dealer. I'll look stupid if I take it there and it works perfectly. Any ideas?

 

[HP]

Print this thread off and take it in.

The only 'trouble' I have had in nearly 17,000 miles is that if you rush the change up into third when very cold, you can just to say feel the tiniest of reluctance. It still slips in fine though.

 

[ScoobyChris]

Fast approaching 23k miles and like HP no problems at all with gear selection. I seem to recall a few months back reading about quite a few people needing the selector cables (?) adjusted when they had a notchy gear change and the dealer should do that under warranty....

Chris

 

[sharief]

Hi guys,

Took the Panda in and got it fixed under warranty. If people really want I can scan the warranty form and host it on Photobucket because it has more information on it than I can understand. The description is: "Removed and stripped gearbox and found third gear synchro broken and causing further damaged to other gears and bearings". The service guy said something about a sleeve not slowing down the gear as I pushed it home and that's why it was crunching?

Strangely found out afterwards that my Panda is already on its second gearbox. I bought it at 3000 miles and (through my own lack of research) didn't find out until almost a year of owning the car! Might have to contact the old owner and find out why it was replaced...

EDIT: Also, without warranty this job would have cost £748.19 + VAT

 

[Andi9386]

Hi guys,

Took the Panda in and got it fixed under warranty. If people really want I can scan the warranty form and host it on Photobucket because it has more information on it than I can understand. The description is: "Removed and stripped gearbox and found third gear synchro broken and causing further damaged to other gears and bearings". The service guy said something about a sleeve not slowing down the gear as I pushed it home and that's why it was crunching?

Strangely found out afterwards that my Panda is already on its second gearbox. I bought it at 3000 miles and (through my own lack of research) didn't find out until almost a year of owning the car! Might have to contact the old owner and find out why it was replaced...

EDIT: Also, without warranty this job would have cost £748.19 + VAT

Good to hear that you got your panda fixed.

I've now got a crunching 3rd gear :bang::bang:

My problem would be as I bought my Panda second Hand then I don't have a warranty anymore, they gave me a 3month warranty which ran out in November and I can't afford to pay £748 not good not good.

When I bought my car it had 22088 miles now its got 27k and some.

So for the list of stuff to be done has expanded.

Rear bumper needs fixed
Areial need sreplacing as it snapped and rounded off the threads
Need to get 1 new tyre O/S/F
Need to keep an eye on the clutch as that's starting to smell a bit
And need to get the gearbox sorted :shakehead::shakehead:

 

[ycming]

Good to hear that you got your panda fixed.

I've now got a crunching 3rd gear :bang::bang:

My problem would be as I bought my Panda second Hand then I don't have a warranty anymore, they gave me a 3month warranty which ran out in November and I can't afford to pay £748 not good not good.

When I bought my car it had 22088 miles now its got 27k and some.

So for the list of stuff to be done has expanded.

Rear bumper needs fixed
Areial need sreplacing as it snapped and rounded off the threads
Need to get 1 new tyre O/S/F
Need to keep an eye on the clutch as that's starting to smell a bit
And need to get the gearbox sorted :shakehead::shakehead:

Sure is not the wheel spin that done the damage ? If you can check out the gear ratio from the panda you got, compare it to the cinq/sei/punto. just find a closly related ration one and bang it in. All fire series engine share the same gear box (even 6 speed if you wish )

Before all that i would buy some salenia gearbox oil directly from fiat, change it and see if that helps!

Ming

 

[Andi9386]

Sure is not the wheel spin that done the damage

? If you can check out the gear ratio from the panda you got, compare it to the cinq/sei/punto. just find a closly related ration one and bang it in. All fire series engine share the same gear box (even 6 speed if you wish )

Before all that i would buy some salenia gearbox oil directly from fiat, change it and see if that helps!

Ming

Oi you cheeky git :nerner:

Nah had a problem with getting it into 3rd for a little while now, sometimes can't even get it into reverse.

 

[ycming]

lol, am pretty sure i read on here that there is something about the gear linkage needs adjusted or something?

Thanks
Ming