What's made you grumpy today?

[SB1500]

No.. stick with the Citroen..



You can have a 'classic FIAT' in years to come.

Once PSA have finished making the interesting cars

That’s true. I suppose by the time I’m done with this DS there could be a better choice of Fiats merged with PSA technology which I’ll have experience with then.

It's up to you, if the Citroën is more suited to your current requirements then it's a backward step.



Seem to recall you did a lot of miles so diesel supermini would make sense.



I remember the ride quality on the DS3 being surprisingly bad, don't think ours had sports suspension (it was only a 90 e-hdi) and it still rode like a skate board. Smaller wheels and bigger section tyres would help a bit (C3 wheels are 3% larger in diameter but share a tyre size with many VW and Ford cars so tyres are super cheap as very common). But I always got the feeling the damping was very stiff which tyres can only help so much.



I remember being quite surprised when it arrived as I'd recently picked the Mazda which has a similar tyre size and although it's firm at lower speeds it never jars and shudders and once you get up to 60 odd mph it's nicely judged. DS3 seemed to find bumps the other car didn't even notice and was so firm it rattled the interior fixtures loose..or that could have been the old 90 diesel either way it was full of rattles day 1.



If you want a Panda though, you can get one similar to the one you had 2015 on for roughly a bag of crisps and can of pop in automotive terms so if you have somewhere to put it a weekend car is not exactly unattainable.

The skateboard analogy is spot on!!! Lol. I seem to remember an ex girlfriends e-HDI 90 Citroen badged DS 3 being much smoother. Then again I had the Panda 169 back then. A week into owning my 2017 Panda I drove the 169 before selling it. The brakes were poor, steering numb and felt much worse in comparison. I was expecting the same driving the ‘15 Panda vs. The DS but as I mentioned above it wasn’t so bad. Only the speed difference stood out.

But you’re right. The mileage was too much for the Panda I think. I suppose maybe next year I might be doing more high miles again (fingers crossed) and this will be clearly more suited.

Fiat basically stripped the later punto of luxuries they even took away the EVO led tail lights after 2015. You won’t get a later model punto that has as good a spec at the DS







you’re comparing apples to oranges to some extent, the panda is a non turbo petrol and the citroen a turbo diesel so they will have very different driving characteristics. If you drive on the turbo you will get much better performance but if you’re used to non turbo petrol cars then you won’t be used to using the turbo.



Also if you bought the DS on finance then you’re going to cost yourself a fortune to change it so quickly

Yeah, I think I should stick with the DS. As much as I enjoyed the Pandas.

It made me realise though how different the two cars truly are. I do admire the simplicity and robustness of the Panda. I always didn’t like the idea of big complicated engines and electronics and designs. But in saying that, I’m lucky to have the facility to be able to fix / learn how to fix this car too and save money on not having to pay a mechanic. So when the DS inevitably does break down more often than the Panda will, it’s a good opportunity to learn.

It’s just a shame all the knowledge of ICE repairs probably won’t be doing me well as long as it has probably helped some of you guys over the decades due to the electric move.

Still, I appreciate all the advice. The DS stays. And I will watch to see what Fiat and PSA can release over time.

 

[StevenRB45]

The skateboard analogy is spot on!!! Lol. I seem to remember an ex girlfriends e-HDI 90 Citroen badged DS 3 being much smoother. Then again I had the Panda 169 back then. A week into owning my 2017 Panda I drove the 169 before selling it. The brakes were poor, steering numb and felt much worse in comparison. I was expecting the same driving the ‘15 Panda vs. The DS but as I mentioned above it wasn’t so bad. Only the speed difference stood out.

Was the 90 hdi on 16s by any chance? As you know ours had the same wheels as yours does and that may be the difference.

PF1 chassis is old as the hills goes back to the 206 the suspension design seems to be either hard or soft with little finesse in between. It is however cheap and space efficient so at least you don't pay all the money for them and you get decent interior space for the exterior size.

When the chassis was designed 14s were the normal wheel and 15s were big so knowing psa it's probably not hugely optimised for the larger wheels. Fun fact for you..the stalks in both the DS3 and C3 were first seen in the Peugeot 307 in 2001. Also our ds3 had the exact same trip computer, door handles and window switches as the 307. They are better now...but christ they used a lot of stuff for a long time.

So not only did original DS3s reuse C3 headlamps, chassis and dashboard there's a reasonable amount of old Pug kicking about as well.

 

[SB1500]

Was the 90 hdi on 16s by any chance? As you know ours had the same wheels as yours does and that may be the difference.

PF1 chassis is old as the hills goes back to the 206 the suspension design seems to be either hard or soft with little finesse in between. It is however cheap and space efficient so at least you don't pay all the money for them and you get decent interior space for the exterior size.

When the chassis was designed 14s were the normal wheel and 15s were big so knowing psa it's probably not hugely optimised for the larger wheels. Fun fact for you..the stalks in both the DS3 and C3 were first seen in the Peugeot 307 in 2001. Also our ds3 had the exact same trip computer, door handles and window switches as the 307. They are better now...but christ they used a lot of stuff for a long time.

Yeah I think it was on 16’s. It was the pre-facelift. I remember her driving over massive potholes and thinking ... how is this car not breaking our spines, and secondly, how many more before the suspension arms snap!!! Looking back, the lack of mechanical sympathy could have been an early red flag of what was to come .... lol

I didn’t realise it shared so much. But at least it’s not only Fiat who use the platforms for components so much between new models! Is it only the Germans that produce a new platform each time the car is renewed?!

I briefly learned to drive in my dads 307 1.4 petrol. He was going to give me that car when I learnt to drive in 2014 but it permanently crapped itself beforehand .... shame but as it was a smooth to drive car!

Just out of curiosity, what was the colour combination of your DS3? Mines is the ink blue and black roof. Though it might as well be all black because that’s how it seems to look 99% of the time

 

[StevenRB45]

I didn’t realise it shared so much. But at least it’s not only Fiat who use the platforms for components so much between new models! Is it only the Germans that produce a new platform each time the car is renewed?!

Just out of curiosity, what was the colour combination of your DS3? Mines is the ink blue and black roof. Though it might as well be all black because that’s how it seems to look 99% of the time

View attachment 212621

PSA was penniless when it designed the DS3 the success of it and other cars cars like the 2008/3008 funded development for the stuff they are making now which is less parts bin rummage sale.

My dad had one of the 1st 307s in the country on Y plate on a 1.6 was a canny car but obviously brand spankers at the time.

DS3 was whisper purple and white..my wife likes a strong colour!

 

[SB1500]

PSA was penniless when it designed the DS3 the success of it and other cars cars like the 2008/3008 funded development for the stuff they are making now which is less parts bin rummage sale.



My dad had one the 1st 307s in the country on Y plate on a 1.6 was a canny car but obviously brand spankers at the time.



DS3 was whisper purple and white..my wife likes a strong colour!



View attachment 212623

People say mines looks purple and I try to tell them about that colour which actually is!

I think they did a good job on the DS3. From 2009 to 2019, it only shows it’s age design wise if you look closely at some details. The ‘shark fin’ seems to be, if anything, being used by most manufacturers now - even Audi and VW etc. (Bodywork rising up above the side window button line as such).

Looks like mines is hear to stay though!

 

[dave]

No where seems to sell cheap wet n dry sand paper and more, none in asda, poundland or home bargains,

 

[StevenRB45]

The skateboard analogy is spot on!!! Lol. I seem to remember an ex girlfriends e-HDI 90 Citroen badged DS 3 being much smoother.

Had a thought

Have you checked the tyre pressures?

It uses rotational differential not actual monitoring of psi to check for punctures so just cos the light isn't on doesn't mean they ain't 5 psi too high all round.

 

[SB1500]

Had a thought



Have you checked the tyre pressures?



It uses rotational differential not actual monitoring of psi to check for punctures so just cos the light isn't on doesn't mean they ain't 5 psi too high all round.

That’s a good point. Do you know what PSI is correct for these 17’s and I’ll go check and see if it makes a difference?

 

[StevenRB45]

That’s a good point. Do you know what PSI is correct for these 17’s and I’ll go check and see if it makes a difference?

If memory serves they are 2.4 bar which is just under 35psi..seem to recall I ran them at 33-34 to try and improve ride. Not recommended if you are doing lots of motorway though.

 

[SB1500]

If memory serves they are 2.4 bar which is just under 35psi..seem to recall I ran them at 33-34 to try and improve ride. Not recommended if you are doing lots of motorway though.

Just filled them up and reset the monitoring. 2.4 bar was right! I only drove up the street and it felt a bit better. Two were one bar below - perhaps last owner was doing the same as you.

As for new tyres in the next few months, can any choices there help the ride or?

 

[StevenRB45]

Just filled them up and reset the monitoring. 2.4 bar was right! I only drove up the street and it felt a bit better. Two were one bar below - perhaps last owner was doing the same as you.

As for new tyres in the next few months, can any choices there help the ride or?

One bar is a long way out, that's over 14psi low will not have been helping ride and handling at all!

You could get a more comfort oriented tyre ours had factory fit Michelin Pilot Exalto a more comfort oriented "touring" style tyre would help with noise and things like expansion gaps.

I went to a softer compound all season in the Mazda which helped road noise and the way it rides rough surfaces alot but lost it a bit of precision.

I plan to put a set on C3 next month, mainly cos where we live winter is WINTER and my wife commutes late at night and early morning in all weathers but should also make the C3 even more cushy.. and there's no precision to lose.

 

[chr1s]

No where seems to sell cheap wet n dry sand paper and more, none in asda, poundland or home bargains,

Wilko ?

https://www.wilko.com/en-uk/wilko-wet-dry-paper-assorted-140mm-x-230mm-10-pack/p/0287563?nst=0&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIqJSas4Xx6wIVg-ntCh1e4gjfEAAYASAAEgJbjvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[varesecrazy]

Just filled them up and reset the monitoring. 2.4 bar was right! I only drove up the street and it felt a bit better. Two were one bar below - perhaps last owner was doing the same as you.

As for new tyres in the next few months, can any choices there help the ride or?

I know you came from a panda.. but keeping them at 20 psi must have seemed odd..
( some ECO tyres run at @50..)

 

[StevenRB45]

May be similar to the absolute nugget who did the pdi on the Mazda.

23 psi is not 2.3 bar

 

[SB1500]

One bar is a long way out, that's over 14psi low will not have been helping ride and handling at all!



You could get a more comfort oriented tyre ours had factory fit Michelin Pilot Exalto a more comfort oriented "touring" style tyre would help with noise and things like expansion gaps.



I went to a softer compound all season in the Mazda which helped road noise and the way it rides rough surfaces alot but lost it a bit of precision.



I plan to put a set on C3 next month, mainly cos where we live winter is WINTER and my wife commutes late at night and early morning in all weathers but should also make the C3 even more cushy.. and there's no precision to lose.

For what it’s worth, these are what I’ll go for when it’s time to change the tyres.

Didn’t realise the difference! Usually I went by PSI, but the sticker had bar and the machine was digital with bar already set so I went with it!

 

[SB1500]

I know you came from a panda.. but keeping them at 20 psi must have seemed odd..

( some ECO tyres run at @50..)

Definitely! Funny how the pressure values read! The opposite of what a newbie would perhaps expect!

 

[StevenRB45]

For what it’s worth, these are what I’ll go for when it’s time to change the tyres.

Unfortunately the wheel size is very restricted, due to the low profile most tyres are stiff sidewalled performance tyres.

You can't get what I have on Mazda and what I'm putting on the C3 in a 205/45 17 (Goodyear Vector 4seasons).

This why I took the opportunity (and the ride obviously!) to avoid the 17s in the new car and switch to 205/55 16 which have a huge range of cheap options.

 

[Paddynabs]

When I was a yoof and constantly getting stopped by the police because my cars always looked knackered one policeman checked my tyre pressures. Apparently it was one of those occasional crackdowns they do.

He told me prior to testing them that I would get 3 points and a fine for each tyre that deviated by more than 3psi from the manufacturers recommended pressures. I wonder if that's still the case and how that works with loaded/unloaded/eco driving recommendations in my handbook for my current car?

 

[portland_bill]

When I was a yoof and constantly getting stopped by the police because my cars always looked knackered one policeman checked my tyre pressures. Apparently it was one of those occasional crackdowns they do.

He told me prior to testing them that I would get 3 points and a fine for each tyre that deviated by more than 3psi from the manufacturers recommended pressures. I wonder if that's still the case and how that works with loaded/unloaded/eco driving recommendations in my handbook for my current car?

I think he was talking rubbish. Running seriously underinflated tyres can be an offence, but difficult to prove unless all are similar. One low could be caused by a puncture or a slow leak from the valve or around the rim. So unless he's willing to do all that diagnosis by the roadside, he can't prove neglect. Pressures can change by 3psi due to extreme cold or after a fast run.

The pressures recommended by the tyre manufacturers for my Panda are mostly higher than from Fiat. And by more than 3psi for the summer ones. It rides significantly quieter and more comfortably on the higher pressures, and steers more accurately, so if I meet such a copper, he's in for a good fight in court.

 

[Paddynabs]

I think he was talking rubbish. Running seriously underinflated tyres can be an offence, but difficult to prove unless all are similar. One low could be caused by a puncture or a slow leak from the valve or around the rim. So unless he's willing to do all that diagnosis by the roadside, he can't prove neglect. Pressures can change by 3psi due to extreme cold or after a fast run.

The pressures recommended by the tyre manufacturers for my Panda are mostly higher than from Fiat. And by more than 3psi for the summer ones. It rides significantly quieter and more comfortably on the higher pressures, and steers more accurately, so if I meet such a copper, he's in for a good fight in court.

The temperature affect on tyre pressures was what puzzled me at the time but obviously I didn't question the fuzz when pulled over. It's was just "yes sir, I check them every week sir".