What Shocked You Today

[portland_bill]

You get 4 hours for that in some OX postcodes..

A few years ago, Oxford raised all car parking charges by a big margin. This made it cheaper to park on the double-yellows and pay the fine immediately. Free if no ticket was issued that day.
It took the council about 3 months to work out why the car parks were suddenly empty, and the roads all full.
Used to visit London regularly. Drove to Hammersmith, then took the Tube. Could park in Hammersmith multi-storey, all day, cheaper than half a day in Oxford.

 

[portland_bill]

It's the small things like making hospital car parks free in scotland that keep the scottish governement in higher regard than westminister here.

It all went wrong quite a few years ago. Hospitals are usually served well by buses, so their car parks became easy 'park & ride' locations. In an effort to discourage this, charging was introduced. Then hospitals realised it was a good income stream, so charges rose. Removing the charges will fill the car parks again with commuters.
Challenging to introduce a scheme that might discount the fees for genuine visitors.

 

[StevenRB45]

Challenging to introduce a scheme that might discount the fees for genuine visitors.

If all goes to plan for the current government it'll become a lot easier..you can just validate your receipt in the foyer.

 

[bugsymike]

It all went wrong quite a few years ago. Hospitals are usually served well by buses, so their car parks became easy 'park & ride' locations. In an effort to discourage this, charging was introduced. Then hospitals realised it was a good income stream, so charges rose. Removing the charges will fill the car parks again with commuters.
Challenging to introduce a scheme that might discount the fees for genuine visitors.

Trouble is Hospitals like many essentials are run as businesses now and any source of revenue stream is jumped on. When you have so many top heavy with "management" teams and quangos that cost more to fund than the people doing the job on the ground as was originally intended, you could throw more money in every day but it will make no difference. There was a lady in the audience on Question Time the other night who worked for a recruitment agency and she said they charge a higher percentage profit/mark up, providing staff for the NHS, than staff for employment elsewhere per job. Basically companies know they can screw more money out of the NHS without question, probably the same for many suppliers to the NHS.

 

[StevenRB45]

Trouble is Hospitals like many essentials are run as businesses now and any source of revenue stream is jumped on. When you have so many top heavy with "management" teams and quangos that cost more to fund than the people doing the job on the ground as was originally intended, you could throw more money in every day but it will make no difference. There was a lady in the audience on Question Time the other night who worked for a recruitment agency and she said they charge a higher percentage profit/mark up, providing staff for the NHS, than staff for employment elsewhere per job. Basically companies know they can screw more money out of the NHS without question, probably the same for many suppliers to the NHS.

Coming from a private sector management role, just because you can technically do without roles doesn't mean they are zero value.

All it does is move the work and responsibility down to the level below without the pay to go with it. Also tends to lead to no clear oversight as that will be bumped to the level above. Usually to someone who is A already busy and B wouldn't know if it's what's being reported to them is right or wrong because they're a long way away from "shopfloor" level.

Yes, if the people who were below the absent manager know their craft it'll be fine other than they now work 56 hours a week for 40 hours pay..but if they don't cock ups don't get spotted early because the next level up is too far away and to generalised to spot issues in specialisms.

Not that all managers are indispensable..but the private sector model is not one to look to if you want the right outcome every time. For people to do good work they need capacity available to think..if you're running flat out to just do the basics then things like innovation go because your people don't have the time to try and fail at things or learn new skills, you have to pay outside companies for that instead. Also people that busy don't have time to sense check their own work and the manager that would have is gone, and their defacto replacement probably doesn't know what they are looking at.

Yeah the recruitment company is ripping off the tax payer..but if that's the going rate they need the people. If they don't pay it they don't get cleaners or nurses or porters. It's not a shop people die if the jobs don't get done.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Trouble is Hospitals like many essentials are run as businesses now and any source of revenue stream is jumped on.

I can tell you now as someone who has worked in management in hospitals, that many hospitals are not “run as businesses” they are businesses, any foundation hospital is a business/company in its own right.

There is a defined management structure within hospitals. Attracting managers who actually know what they are doing costs a lot of money, but usually people who work in non clinical management roles within the hospital work there way up from the bottom and are trained on the job. Budgets are so tight they don’t tend to hang on to people in jobs that are not needed and there are plenty of positions that someone can be redeployed into if there job isn’t needed or isn’t adding value

 

[bugsymike]

Coming from a private sector management role, just because you can technically do without roles doesn't mean they are zero value.

All it does is move the work and responsibility down to the level below without the pay to go with it. Also tends to lead to no clear oversight as that will be bumped to the level above. Usually to someone who is A already busy and B wouldn't know if it's what's being reported to them is right or wrong because they're a long way away from "shopfloor" level.

Yes, if the people who were below the absent manager know their craft it'll be fine other than they now work 56 hours a week for 40 hours pay..but if they don't cock ups don't get spotted early because the next level up is too far away and to generalised to spot issues in specialisms.

Not that all managers are indispensable..but the private sector model is not one to look to if you want the right outcome every time. For people to do good work they need capacity available to think..if you're running flat out to just do the basics then things like innovation go because your people don't have the time to try and fail at things or learn new skills, you have to pay outside companies for that instead. Also people that busy don't have time to sense check their own work and the manager that would have is gone, and their defacto replacement probably doesn't know what they are looking at.

Yeah the recruitment company is ripping off the tax payer..but if that's the going rate they need the people. If they don't pay it they don't get cleaners or nurses or porters. It's not a shop people die if the jobs don't get done.

My first wife trained as an SRN with progression to Staff Nurse etc, there was also SENs which did excellent work also.
What I think is a mistake is saying jobs that are basically practical with good technical skills have to have University degrees to enlist as once people have those degrees they often feel entry level nursing is beneath them.
In the same way a University degree would have been of no value in my career, although the relevant qualifications to progress in my chosen path I was able to obtain with distinctions, though I would say I have never been asked to produce them in over fifty years as any advancement was on personnel recommendation much in the way I got my customers, I never had to advertise.
I would say the only time I put my business details and address on a van , I was filling up with fuel and a guy came storming up to me saying "you owe me money, you bounced cheques to my company" gobsmacked I produced my business cheque book and said contact any of my suppliers and they will tell I don't. It turned out a previous company had the premises and this guy leapt to the wrong conclusion!!!

 

[StevenRB45]

My first wife trained as an SRN with progression to Staff Nurse etc, there was also SENs which did excellent work also.
What I think is a mistake is saying jobs that are basically practical with good technical skills have to have University degrees to enlist as once people have those degrees they often feel entry level nursing is beneath them.

How about we look at this another way though.

You need a degree to be a Paramedic but all it requires is "good technical and practical skills".

How a lot NHS paras get their degrees is they start as something like a call handler, the NHS offers days out with crews to none road staff and they'll attend one of those and decide they want to do it. So they'll apply to be a "tech" basically you're the paramedics dogs body on the ambulance you do the driving, get things, do basics. After sometime they have the opportunity to do the paramedic degree and become a paramedic on the NHSs dime.

So it depends where you think "entry level" sits you may not be able to walk in and start at what are important patient care levels. But if you get a job lower down there's a good chance you'll be supported in moving up.

 

[bugsymike]

How about we look at this another way though.

You need a degree to be a Paramedic but all it requires is "good technical and practical skills".

How a lot NHS paras get their degrees is they start as something like a call handler, the NHS offers days out with crews to none road staff and they'll attend one of those and decide they want to do it. So they'll apply to be a "tech" basically you're the paramedics dogs body on the ambulance you do the driving, get things, do basics. After sometime they have the opportunity to do the paramedic degree and become a paramedic on the NHSs dime.

So it depends where you think "entry level" sits you may not be able to walk in and start at what are important patient care levels. But if you get a job lower down there's a good chance you'll be supported in moving up.

How about people whom in the past were quite happy taking on a semi skilled job as an SEN, who were quite contented to do the basic caring that is vitally important but maybe under rated and as long as they earned enough to live on didn't feel the need to achieve a higher position, much in the way I knew several people who worked in the parks and gardens for our local council and did a very good job to the point that they won an Award at Chelsea Flower Show. They all lost those jobs when Councils contracted out services, which as a result the parks and gardens are in a sad state, plus I suspect the price the contractors charge would have easily covered employing the original gardeners. In much the same way hospitals contracted out cleaning services, resulting in a sometimes poor job and increased hospital transmitted infections, when previously the Matron could oversee ward cleanliness and in house cleaners could keep on top of it.
I have a relative whose partner some time ago became very ill with covid which was treated in a large hospital, however whilst in there he got severe bed sores through poor care and now even at home it is still being treated many months later, even then they tried to take away the "ripple bed" which was part of the care needed for the bed sores .
I spoke to senior nurses in a different hospital and they were aghast, saying "that is something that should never have happened".
I feel that hospitals in general and the NHS should be run efficiently but not as a business by accountants.

 

[vexorg]

I have a relative whose partner some time ago became very ill with covid which was treated in a large hospital, however whilst in there he got severe bed sores through poor care and now even at home it is still being treated many months later, even then they tried to take away the "ripple bed" which was part of the care needed for the bed sores .
I spoke to senior nurses in a different hospital and they were aghast, saying "that is something that should never have happened".

Definitiely wouldn't have happened where my wife worked, she was on the covid ICU wards all through the pandemic, turning patients in bed was one of the biggest demands of the job, since most of then were not on the skinny side.

I feel that hospitals in general and the NHS should be run efficiently but not as a business by accountants.

It's like any public sector business, runs badly though general incompetence of the financial side, then they privitise it and runs badly due to profit making. I struggle to see why there cant be good moral leader that can make the public sector work like an efficient business. Putting in unit managers at 4 times the average nurse pay doesn't help, and adds to the problem since they cant afford 4 nurses now.

And I dont see the need for a degree to become a nurse. It's worked fine for 50 years, when mess it up. My wife learned pre-degree days, hands dirty on the wards (probably literally!) and a third of the time in the classroom over 3 years. Degree nurses walked in from uni without a real days' experience, or later were on the wards but not allowed to do any of the real work (may have changed now, I stopped asking years ago since it just got me angry to hear how nurses were treated).

 

[bugsymike]

Definitiely wouldn't have happened where my wife worked, she was on the covid ICU wards all through the pandemic, turning patients in bed was one of the biggest demands of the job, since most of then were not on the skinny side.


It's like any public sector business, runs badly though general incompetence of the financial side, then they privitise it and runs badly due to profit making. I struggle to see why there cant be good moral leader that can make the public sector work like an efficient business. Putting in unit managers at 4 times the average nurse pay doesn't help, and adds to the problem since they cant afford 4 nurses now.

And I dont see the need for a degree to become a nurse. It's worked fine for 50 years, when mess it up. My wife learned pre-degree days, hands dirty on the wards (probably literally!) and a third of the time in the classroom over 3 years. Degree nurses walked in from uni without a real days' experience, or later were on the wards but not allowed to do any of the real work (may have changed now, I stopped asking years ago since it just got me angry to hear how nurses were treated).

I agree 100%

 

[vexorg]

An RS200 up for sale on ebay, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/304740913122
A mere £300k!!

 

[bugsymike]

An RS200 up for sale on ebay, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/304740913122
A mere £300k!!

Sounds like a bargain, have you put a deposit on it?

 

[portland_bill]

Sounds like a bargain, have you put a deposit on it?

Like a pigeon leaving a deposit?

 

[Ralf S.]

12 hours hospital parking...

18 quid..would be cheaper to rent a house with a drive nearby.

Is there a car garage nearby? Drop your car off there for a top up of the screenwash, then pick it up at the end of the day... has to be a fiver well spent.


Ralf S.

 

[bugsymike]

Is there a car garage nearby? Drop your car off there for a top up of the screenwash, then pick it up at the end of the day... has to be a fiver well spent.


Ralf S.

Just make sure it isn't a "Quickfit" or you may find a bill for four tyres and a set of shock absorbers plus tracking, that they just happened to notice whilst topping up the screenwash.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Who saw this guys evidence and thought that he was telling the truth, to the extent they even entertained the story.

Elderly driver, 76, fined £100 and given three points for ‘allowing ambulance to pass’

Frank Wallington inched his BMW through a red light to allow the ambulance to pass on the A52 in Radcliffe on Trent, Nottinghamshire.

uk.yahoo.com

It is very clear in every way shape and form that he is just running the red light. I’ll let you decide for yourself as to the very obvious reasons why he really isn’t letting an ambulance past.

My guess is he saw an ambulance on the picture and decided to chance it.

Also being 76 and having a 20 year clean driving history isn’t a big boast, just means the last time he was done for something was 20 years ago…. Many people can claim 20 years or more, what would be more impressive is if he had a 59 year clean record

 

[vexorg]

Years ago, my brother was driving, we were at a red light crossroad junction, at the front on the white line. A fire engine came up behind, blue lights on. Sat behind us, honking the horn, I could se them gesturing to move, but the traffic was busy and moving on the road in front. To this day I'm still not sure if it would be right to move through the red light into moving traffic and hope they'd stop to let us and him through.

 

[bugsymike]

Years ago, my brother was driving, we were at a red light crossroad junction, at the front on the white line. A fire engine came up behind, blue lights on. Sat behind us, honking the horn, I could se them gesturing to move, but the traffic was busy and moving on the road in front. To this day I'm still not sure if it would be right to move through the red light into moving traffic and hope they'd stop to let us and him through.

One thing is sure if your brothers car drove into the other traffic to get out of the way they wouldn't be claiming on the fire brigade's insurance!

 

[portland_bill]

Years ago, my brother was driving, we were at a red light crossroad junction, at the front on the white line. A fire engine came up behind, blue lights on. Sat behind us, honking the horn, I could se them gesturing to move, but the traffic was busy and moving on the road in front. To this day I'm still not sure if it would be right to move through the red light into moving traffic and hope they'd stop to let us and him through.

It's a simple traffic offence if you go through the red light. Many people have been prosecuted for this.
The proper procedure is that the emergency vehicle should wait patiently, usually turning off the noise and lights. Then as the lights change, all gets turned on again. Usually, everyone will wait, and only the vehicles ahead of the emergency vehicle moves, until its gone.
They have permission to treat red lights as 'give way', the rest of us do not.

Similarly, if there's a bus lane, they should use it, not bully us into it. (Swindon ambulance, are you listening?)