Technical What oil?

[whatoncewas]

Shell Helix Plus, semi-synth 10w-40, considered to be a good brand?

 

[oilman]

Semi-synthetics are fine if you're prepared to change them on a regular basis, fully synthetics are better every time and don't need changing so regularly.

Cheers
Guy

 

[whatoncewas]

Oil changes (with filter) WILL be every 6k miles or 6 months.

The Shell Helix Plus bit is what I wanted to be sure about.

 

[oilman]

The Helix Ultra is a pao synthetic, the Helix plus is a hydrocracked mineral oil.

Cheers
Guy

 

[whatoncewas]

Done the oil change last weekend just gone. Used 10w-40 semi-synthetic. No engine flush. New oil filter.

Changed air filter as well.

The usual better running experience after a service is there, but a couple of differences from before:

Sounds much more 'tappety' when cold on idle. Seems to go away once warm, but you can tell it's still there a tiny bit. Is this anything long-term to worry about?

Just driven it 200miles north at a constant 60-65mph. I assume this long drive is good with very new oil to 'free up' the valves and other moving parts etc. that were drowned previously in mineral rubbish?

Feels much more powerful top-end, but I think that's the new air filter rather than the new oil.

All in all, quite pleased. Will be jacking the car up again tomorrow to just check one thing by the side of the sump - saw oil there. Need to wipe it down and see what's happening. It might just be from a long time ago before.

Next oil change will have to be in September now. Someone please remind me!

 

[phatboy130]

Hi there!! As a new member I have only just seen this thread, so I am probably a bit late in posting but here goes......

I have a 1992 mk 2 Uno 60S i.e. "Chic", I've had had it for 3 yrs since buying it from my parents who owned it from new.

As far as oil changes are concerned, it has had oil changes every 3000 miles since new with the recommended 15/50, which probably explains why it runs like a swiss watch ( mind you the whole car is immaculate) at 84k on the speedo.

I have inherited my fathers philosophy of oil changes this often, using a good quality service oil from the local motor factors, as in the long term your engine stays super clean inside, there is no sludgy crap in my engine as I've seen it stripped down!!!

On a parting note, the idea that synthetics last for 20000 or so b4 needing a change doesn't sit well with me, these are the maximum recommended mileages before the oil starts to break down and lose it's protective properties, but common sense dictates that oil collects dirt and gritty particles every mile you drive, so in my humble opinion, if you leave an oil in for 20k, you are driving around with an engine full of S**t by that time!!!

I feel that it makes more sense to change oil much more regularly, and leave the likes of racing synthetics to the racing fans (like my father in law with his racing spec lotus - and he throws away the oil after virtually every track day)

Just my opinions - each to their own - my way works for me - do what makes you feel happy

 

[whatoncewas]

The recommended is 15/50? Eeek, so have I done something wrong by using 10/40??

 

[SuperUno]

15W40 is the recommended oil for nearly all Fiat engines in the UK, it may differ in other countries due to the temperature differences.

 

[whatoncewas]

Are you sure? My UK Uno handbook says 10w-40.

 

[phatboy130]

Nah don't worry, 10/40 or 15/50 will be fine, the figures just relate to the viscosity levels of the oil when cold/hot ( see earlier posting ), the 15 is used more in the uk due to our weather temp etc but either oil will be fine.

 

[whatoncewas]

Cool!
Even our Marea Weekend's handbook said 10w-40.

I think in winter I may use 15w-40.

 

[oilman]

As I've said before 10w-40 is the recommended grade.

Reasons for stepping outside of this are:

Modded cars
Track/competition use
Extreme climates
High oil temps

Cheers
Guy

 

[Chas Uno]

On a parting note, the idea that synthetics last for 20000 or so b4 needing a change doesn't sit well with me, these are the maximum recommended mileages before the oil starts to break down and lose it's protective properties, but common sense dictates that oil collects dirt and gritty particles every mile you drive, so in my humble opinion, if you leave an oil in for 20k, you are driving around with an engine full of S**t by that time!!!

Hey Phatboy,

I used to have the same philosophy as you regarding oil changes, BUT, it is worth bearing mind the advances in oil technology.

The big benefit of synthetic versus mineral based oils is that synthetic takes much, much longer to break down. This is what causes oil to lose it's essential properties of lubricating the engines moving parts.

Also, an engine in good condition should not be collecting any s**t in the oil! Certainly not grit or dirt! If the piston rings/ valve guides etc. are in bad condition then they would allow contamination to occur. But don't forget, the really nasty stuff is held at bay by the oil filter. A lot of the chemical contaminants that get into the oil will get burnt off through the breather system if the engine is allowed to run at full operating temperature. And unlike mineral based oil which breaks down over time and starts absorbing contaminants, synthetics go for much longer before any breakdowns occur.

I found this hard to swallow at first, because I was always brought up to change oil frequently. But notice how much longer modern car engines last for (150,000 miles these days is quite normal), and it's rare these days to see a car fail on engine bearings and such. This is due as much to modern oils as it is to the engine designs themselves. All engines need good lubrication however well built they are.

I went over to fully synthetic after seeing the results of a friends 1986 VW Scirocco GTX. It uses the 1.8 Golf GTi engine, except at 60,000 miles it was rebuilt and tuned by GTi engineering and taken out to 2.0 litres. This engine has now done over 300,000 miles, I kid you not, with the oil changed at 20,000 or 2 yearly intervals. It is worth bearing in mind though that this car tends to be used on long journeys at A road and motorway speeds, which is much more kind to the engine than short journeys.

It has regularly been featured in VW Driver magazine which my friend often wrote articles for.

Anyway, I switched to fully synthetic on my Uno in June 2003. It took about a year before the oil started to go dark, and even now it shows no signs of sludging like mineral based oil used to do. I've done about 15,000 miles now with this oil, and will change it (along with a new filter) next month as it has reached the two year interval.

The engine doesn't smoke, runs just as good as it did when I first got it, and consumes no more oil than it did before I switched to synthetic. Last time I looked at the camshaft it was as clean as anything with no sludge evident whatsoever. Also worth bearing in mind that I drive my little Uno hard, and it spends it's time on the motorway at 75 - 80mph as well as doing a lot of town and city driving. Not bad for a little 1.0 litre!

So I hope that it shows that you CAN leave synthetic in for much longer than mineral based oil, but of course it needs to be taken into account the kind of driving the car is subjected to. Constant town driving will need to have the oil changed sooner when compared with mainly motorway driving.

Though as you said, each to their own. I'm happy to pay extra for synthetic and change it at 15,000 miles compared with using mineral oil and changing it every 3,000 miles. That's 5 times more often than when using synthetic, and probably works out as more expensive!

I'll report in a month on the state of my oil when I drain it. Will be interesting to see if it looks as bad as mineral oil did when changed at 6,000 miles, though going by the dipstick it's still in good condition.

Chas

 

[whatoncewas]

Woah! I'd never wait a whole year before changing oil, regardless of what the oil is.

6 months is my max. (about every 5k miles on my Uno).
9k miles on the Alfa JTD we have (which is about 6 months anyway).

 

[Chas Uno]

I know it's hard to swallow leaving oil changes so long, but again, like the way engines have improved in quality and reliability, so has engine oil. Remember as well, long oil changes only really apply to fully synthetic oil, NOT mineral based or semi synthetic.

Mineral based oils break down hence the need for frequent changes. Fully synthetic lasts about 3 to 4 times longer under normal driving conditions.

And as I mentioned in my last post, I found it hard to believe until I saw my friends VW Scirocco GTX. Run on fully synthetic, 20,000 mile/ two yearly oil changes and the engine has needed NO WORK! The head was removed about 50,000 miles ago for a suspected head gasket failure and the bores still had the hone marks on them. The head gasket hadn't gone by the way, and the fault (I can't remember what it was) was nothing to do with the engine after all.

On my Uno, the oil on the dipstick still hasn't gone a black colour in nearly two years like mineral would do in 6 months. It also still drips off the dipstick like nearly new oil, rather than sliding off like treacle.

Oil goes black because it breaks down, absorbs contaminants and loses it's lubrication properties. If it doesn't go black, it is still doing its job of lubricating correctly.

All I can suggest is to try fully synthetic, and see for yourselves how much longer it lasts. Change at six months if you want, and see how clean it is.

To understand more about how oil works and why fully synthetic lasts so much longer, do a 'net search for some of the major brands of oil and read up on what advances have been made. Oil really has progressed in the last few years.

 

[whatoncewas]

Currently it has got 10w-40 semi-synth in there, and it's still clear as you describe (not black) and dripping off. Makes it kinda hard to check levels!

I do agree though - The original mineral based stuff went black after a month. Did a good job of cleaning the crap out though

Thing is, fully synth would cost me about £20-£30. I can get semi-synth for £7 at most. I'd rather spend £7 every 6 months for an oil change than £20 every 12 months, and it's more frequent (you can never have too many oil changes etc.).

But, I think I might try it next time. Thanks
Shell sometimes send me some vouchers, so I'll wait for them and then buy.

 

[markoibook]

Quick question - I have an 1989 Mk1 903cc OHV Uno, with 50000 on the clock. I'm going to do an oil change very soon, and the recommended oil is 15/40 Mineral.
However, I was just wondering whether there would be any benefit or detriment to using 15/40 Part Synthetic (Castrol Magnetec).
As far as I know the Part Synthetic should be fine, but was just wondering whether I would actually notice any difference between mineral and part synthetic at the same viscosity?

 

[oilman]

I would use a 10w-40 semi-synthetic, it will give better cold start, not cost you a lot and last longer without losing viscosity.

I use the Fuchs Titan XTR 10w-40 in my Uno Biance run around.

Cheers
Guy

 

[whatoncewas]

"better cold start".

I guess you mean warms up quicker, but what does it mean when you can hear the higher pitched "ticks" of the cam/tappets/valves/whatever?

I mean, the "tappety noise" (I tihnk that's what they call it).

 

[oilman]

"better cold start".

I guess you mean warms up quicker, but what does it mean when you can hear the higher pitched "ticks" of the cam/tappets/valves/whatever?

I mean, the "tappety noise" (I tihnk that's what they call it).

The "Better cold start" comes from not just getting up to temp quicker but being effective from the moment you turn the key. At start up is when 90% of engine wear occurs so it is important to get the best circulation as soon as possible, this is done by the viscosity and quality of the oil.

The tappety noise is not uncommon, you can mask it buy using thicker oil, but it does not fix it.

Cheers

Guy.