General Water for Gas Technology

Currently reading:
General Water for Gas Technology

maddogmorg

BRUM!!
Joined
Feb 6, 2006
Messages
4,060
Location
Weston-sloping-Mare
no way would this work. a jam jar full of water isn't going to do all that. it takes large amounts of energy to electrolyse water into hydrogen and water. plus it would mess up ignition if you were able to produce enough gas to make a difference. i hope you're joking when you said to try that!!
 
OP
OP
Jefflun

Jefflun

New member
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
20
Location
Hobart - Tasmania
Hi,
Sorry guys but your wrong, as a simple experiment, i made a makeshift sample up from 2 pieces of flat aluminum bar separated by a couple of pieces of plastic and connected them to a small 12vdc 500ma plug in charger i had lying around and stuck them in a glass of water with a small amount of bi carb soda. I covered the glass and 10mins later lit a match over the glass and got a fairly substantial pop, indicating to me that Hydrogen gas was present.
I sure you will have seen this done years ago in a science class using a Hoffman Voltometer, its a standard science experiment. and If you would care to try the same thing I just did which took me all of 15 mins. to put together you will get the same results. So don't tell me this doesn't work they do it in science rooms the world over , its not new its been around for years.
I very much doubt that it would have any large effect at all on ignition and if you don't want to do it then fine, no-one is compelling you just don't knock it till you try it.
Jeff:rolleyes:
 

maddogmorg

BRUM!!
Joined
Feb 6, 2006
Messages
4,060
Location
Weston-sloping-Mare
If you're willing to try this, go ahead. i'm just not sure if you'd be able to produce enough hydrogen to make a difference.

also after reading the website they seem to have an adjustable resistor for the MAP sensor, and i can't imagine adding water vapour to the engine would do it much good.

also when you factor in energy losses due to inefficiences you're getting less out than you put in surely?

my view is that this is a scam, and it's been described as such on internet sites that a google search will yield.

of course the process does produce Hydrogen and oxygen. but it just doesn't appear to be efficient enough to make a difference.
 
OP
OP
Jefflun

Jefflun

New member
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
20
Location
Hobart - Tasmania
Hi,
I understand what you are saying and I concur with your basic thoughts and I am not advocating this conclusively. However, if we are going to talk about efficiencies, lets talk about the basic efficiency and fuel consumption figures of an internal combustion engine. In more than 100 years since the production of the first mass produced car, the Ford T model which delivered approx. 30mpg (12.75 km/litre) and based on all the technological and engineering development in that 100 year period, the latest Ford Explorer delivers a pathetic 18mpg (7.65 kl/litre) it would appear that we have gone backward. Yes, you can say we have more power, performance, luxury etc.etc.etc the fact remains that the average motor car driven by an internal combustion engine using gasoline is extremely inefficient.
Most things that are electrically driven or consume electricity by comparison and I'm sure like all things there will be or are exceptions, are far more efficient. The conversion of water back to its gaseous state using even a standard battery, is far more efficient than the energy consumed and produced by an internal combustion engine operating on gasoline joule for joule.
If we take it a step further and add a recent technology solar panel to the system to assist in replenishing the charge in that battery, which to a degree provides us with a source of cheap readily available, energy we have a very efficient system.
It is only a matter of time before we start to see some sort of ascetic form of solar panel fitted to the motor car to assist in battery charging.
(The X19 lends it self to existing formats, with its black engine cover at the rear, than most other cars.)

If we look at your car battery for example, placed on a charger with even a trickle charge of 2 amps, it is still producing Hydrogen gas, attested to by the fact that it is strongly recommended that you charge in a well ventilated space away from naked flame or spark.

The long and the short is yes I have already virtually finished building a test unit. Yes I will be trialling it on my X19, yes I will be doing a number of checks and balances to assess its worth and no I wont believe you until I have well and truly proven it for myself.
Anything will be step in the right direction, both economically and ecologically over what we are currently subjected to by the oil barons of the world, especially as it has now been successfully driven passed $90/barrel.
Regards, Jeff
 

jimbro1000

New member
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
1,921
Location
Flixton, Manchester
So is that a V6 or V8 Ford Explorer?

I have a previous generation V6 fully loaded with extras that manages a competent 30mpg but it took some fiddling to get there. Tyre pressures nearer the top end of the range. The grip available on the road with those tyre pressures is marginally reduced but still good enough to sling the car along very quickly down twisting country lanes, performance is a bit better too and why? We took a look at the fuelling map for the car and found that the default map was very wasteful of fuel, tighten it up (thanks to the man who tunes Ford race engines for Ford in the UK) and away we go. You can still get sub-20mpg if you try really hard but otherwise it is quite respectable.

I'm still contemplating a conversion to run LPG given the rising price of petrol in the UK (currently £5 a gallon or roughly $10) giving me a range of about 750miles from a full tank (both of them).

Ford have been heavily chastised for this in the past few years, not just for the Explorer but for all their cars. The Lexus Rx400h manages 30mpg+ with ease (far better than the explorer) and offers more power and torque (and a pathetic load space) with hybrid drive technology and without going to diesel that is about as good as 4x4s get.

Why such poor figures? The answer is simple, we as customers demand more power and bigger engines and the bigger the engines get the more it *costs* to just run them before you even try pulling away. This has little to do with the limitations of the internal combustion engine and more to do with the consumerism that feeds the growth. Irrespective of engine size once you start reaching the efficiency ceiling of the internal combustion engine you find that the amount of fuel used is directly proportional to the power demand. If you were prepared to drive along in a modern car at speeds comparable to a model-T you would find yourself in a small compact capable of nearer 100mpg. Comparing a model-T to an explorer always was a pointless exercise even if it is symbolic.

Ultimately we are addicted to petrol at the moment and while we use petrol to run our cars we are stuck with the funadamental thermal losses that go with it and the mechanical losses from the engines and drivetrains that go with them.

As for the use of hydrogen as a fuel is still fundamentally flawed. The costs of cracking water into hydrogen and oxygen in any meaningful quantity is still huge and most importantly disproportionate to the energy returned. The losses are far, far greater than those of a simple petrol engine. This has always been the problem with hydrogen. Either you have a central facility for cracking it at a considerable rate and carry a heavy pressure tank in your car with all the dangers that come with it or you have a cracking facility in your car...

Using the gas as a fuel for an internal combustion engine is the funny bit - ultimately you still have much the same problem as with petrol. The internal combustion engine simply isnt that efficient and you are still left with all of those mechanical and thermal losses. The final straw is what happens when it leaks?

The only thing you gain is a degree of seperation from those greedy oil barons you mentioned but until you do away with all of your oil based plastics and oil fed mains elecricity that is simply an illusion.
 

maddogmorg

BRUM!!
Joined
Feb 6, 2006
Messages
4,060
Location
Weston-sloping-Mare
despite my reservations i must admit i am quite looking forwards to your feedback when you actually carry out the testing. i really would love it if it came back that it was really good but i can't see how it's possible.

Good luck with it, and please report back.
James.
 

MaddMatt

New member
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
19
I'm with James on this one. I'm a pretty smart guy but I don't claim to know everything about everything. I'd love to hear your results in _your_ car. I've heard both sides of this story online but never heard from a person vs a web page (pushing a product).

Good Luck!

MM
 

john waddington

New member
Joined
Feb 26, 2007
Messages
77
Location
andalucia
hello, i'm thinking of doing something with HHO in my panda. how did your experiment work out? do you know how to over ride the fuel injection system? apparently this will automatically cancel out any fuel saving unless it is altered. i just downloaded some information from the fuel rebel/water 4 gas. is it a scam? john
 

x19fan

New member
Joined
Jul 1, 2006
Messages
35
Location
Gloucester
Hi Guys,
Came across this the other day on the net and thought it was really interesting, especially for older cars like the X19's.
Think I might build one of these things and try it out.
http://lunjc5307.water4gas.hop.clickbank.net
Jeff :eek:

How many times have I seen this load of psuedo science thrown up on various forums. Take it from a qualified Chemical Engineer you can disprove nearly every claim made on the website.
By all means knock yourself out and try it but nothing is free in this world and that applies to laws of physics and chemistry.
 
OP
OP
Jefflun

Jefflun

New member
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
20
Location
Hobart - Tasmania
Obviously another bafoon who has been brain washed by the new world order, but your young and eventually you may learn a thing or to.
I suggest you go look at the Video "Who killed the electric car" as a starter and progress from there.
Jeff
 

bludvl_x19

42 Wallaby Way Sydney
Joined
Mar 13, 2007
Messages
5,848
Location
Château Verdafluer
Obviously another bafoon who has been brain washed by the new world order, but your young and eventually you may learn a thing or to.
I suggest you go look at the Video "Who killed the electric car" as a starter and progress from there.
Jeff

Do you know where I could get hold of a copy? Ebay or download? I know the basics, and im kind of interested in seeing it.

Cheers,

Michael
 
Top