Technical Very poor fuel consumption, Fiat panda 1.1 active, where to look first

[Revilo]

Hello all,

New member here, we have recently purchased a panda 1.1 active, it's really clean with extensive service history.

All appears to be well looked after with no faults.

However after a few weeks of driving I am noticing extremely poor fuel consumption,

I estimate about 200mile range on a full tank of mixed driving, that's about 25mpg,

From other posts I've read I should be getting 40+,

I am a gentle driver, having had a few small cars petrol and diesel, and usually return high fuel consumption in comparison to the quoted stats

There is no leak that I can determine, the gauge does not move if left for a time.

Only when driving, the car also feels underpowered to me, I know it's only about 58hp, but I'm used to cars sub 100hp and this just doesn't feel right.

The power band is only down low, mergebibg onto a large road is a bit challenging, power doesn't seem to build with revs, it just seems to fall flat.

What should I be looking at first,
Plugs?
Coil?
Maf?
O2 sensor?
Filters?
Something else.

Many thanks Oliver

 

[koalar]

Hello all,

New member here, we have recently purchased a panda 1.1 active, it's really clean with extensive service history.

All appears to be well looked after with no faults.

However after a few weeks of driving I am noticing extremely poor fuel consumption,

I estimate about 200mile range on a full tank of mixed driving, that's about 25mpg,

From other posts I've read I should be getting 40+,

I am a gentle driver, having had a few small cars petrol and diesel, and usually return high fuel consumption in comparison to the quoted stats

There is no leak that I can determine, the gauge does not move if left for a time.

Only when driving, the car also feels underpowered to me, I know it's only about 58hp, but I'm used to cars sub 100hp and this just doesn't feel right.

The power band is only down low, mergebibg onto a large road is a bit challenging, power doesn't seem to build with revs, it just seems to fall flat.

What should I be looking at first,
Plugs?
Coil?
Maf?
O2 sensor?
Filters?
Something else.

Many thanks Oliver

Yes all of them

Personally I would start by checking the fluids

Coolant level
Colour

Oil level
Oil colour

Then take the spark plugs and photograph them in order they came out

Should tell us if all cylinder are burning the same and if it’s running rich or week

 

[Revilo]

Yes all of them

Personally I would start by checking the fluids

Coolant level
Colour

Oil level
Oil colour

Then take the spark plugs and photograph them in order they came out

Should tell us if all cylinder are burning the same and if it’s running rich or week

Cheers thanks,

I can tell you oil is good, nice and golden, levels all good, have not dropped,

All the colours of the fluids look good,
Car has been regularly serviced previously

Ill pull the plugs tomorrow and post on here

Thanks Oliver

 

[jrkitching]

25mpg isn't normal; I can't imagine how you'd have to drive one in good order to get this low.

Also check the thermostat is functioning correctly; there's a seal inside which often perishes and allows coolant to flow when it should be closed, so the engine never warms up properly. If the temperature gauge isn't at the halfway point after a couple of miles running, this is the likely cause. The Panda uses a LOT more fuel until it reaches normal operating temperature.

Double check by placing your hand on the top hose after starting the engine (be careful); it should stay stone cold for a few minutes, then warm quickly once the thermostat opens.

 

[09 johno]

change the spark plugs, drop some redex or similar in the tank, fill with E5 super unleaded then go for a long fast drive or drive around in a lower gear than normal to blow out any soot, basically give it an Italian tune up. Chances are its a coked up engine, injectors or blocked exhaust from lots of low speed town driving, the state of the plugs may show this if they are black and sooty or just the wrong ones fitted.

 

[Revilo]

25mpg isn't normal; I can't imagine how you'd have to drive one in good order to get this low.

Also check the thermostat is functioning correctly; there's a seal inside which often perishes and allows coolant to flow when it should be closed, so the engine never warms up properly. If the temperature gauge isn't at the halfway point after a couple of miles running, this is the likely cause. The Panda uses a LOT more fuel until it reaches normal operating temperature.

Double check by placing your hand on the top hose after starting the engine (be careful); it should stay stone cold for a few minutes, then warm quickly once the thermostat opens.

Thanks,

Can confirm that it reaches temperature perfectly, sits at half after 2-3 miles, heaters all works as expected,

I would assume thermostat is also opening as it doesn't overheat and stays bang on hallways on dial.

The suggestion of some fuel cleaner isn't a bad one.

Although I'm very dubious on injector cleaners, unless ultrasonic, it probably has never had a good clean out.

If it's running rich, I doubt an Italian tune up would help, as it'll still be coking it up inside.

Cheers Oliver

 

[varesecrazy]

Timing belts jump on 1.1's

Check timing before spending money

Masses of info in GUIDES

CINQ-SEI is same motor

 

[koalar]

Thanks,

Can confirm that it reaches temperature perfectly, sits at half after 2-3 miles, heaters all works as expected,

I would assume thermostat is also opening as it doesn't overheat and stays bang on hallways on dial.

Correct

This suggestion has been answers it’s working as expected. Another thing knocked of the list

The suggestion of some fuel cleaner isn't a bad one.

Although I'm very dubious on injector cleaners, unless ultrasonic, it probably has never had a good clean out.

Never had any injector problems on a petrol car. As far as I know in the last few years we have only had physically damaged injectors. Usually still okay in cars with 200,000 on them. Possibility but unlikely

If it's running rich, I doubt an Italian tune up would help, as it'll still be coking it up inside.

Cheers Oliver

You should never get a build up of carbon on a modern fuel injected engine.that’s running okay

Unlike the days of carburettors a fuel injected engine delivers the correct mixture under all temperatures, load, and revs

If it’s been running rich it will self clean just under normal driving.

This is mine and has over 100k on it

 

[koalar]

Cheers thanks,

I can tell you oil is good, nice and golden, levels all good, have not dropped,

Good that’s another couple of things knocked of the list

All the colours of the fluids look good,
Car has been regularly serviced previously

Great

Ill pull the plugs tomorrow and post on here

Thanks Oliver

Thanks

 

[koalar]

Listen at the exhaust

Is it running on all 4 cylinders

Here a video on my car running on 3 then 4

Fiat Panda 1.1 Active Eco chugging and rough idle / Accelerator clunking | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

Hi guys, I just bought my very first car - a Fiat Panda!! I'm absolutely delighted with it - apart from a few issues. I was driving on the motorway the other day when all of a sudden the car chugged quite violently and the yellow OEBD light flashed on and then disappeared. This has happened...

www.fiatforum.com

Is there any small of petrol anywhere front or back or exhaust

 

[varesecrazy]

Damaged fuel lines..mainly around the tank.. are not unheard of

Not sure you would smell it in winter

 

[DaveMcT]

Cold start the engine and measure exhaust stub temperatures with an IR thermometer. They should all warm up equally. The coils work in pairs so problems here would show as one pair warming slower than the other.

 

[varesecrazy]

Or.. as they did 100 years ago

Dampen all 4 branches with water.. and see if 1 or 2 stay Darker for longer

 

[irc]

Just a random thought...
Does the Panda roll very easily on a flat surface? As in gentle push with one hand produces movement.

I had to free up brakes on 3 or 4 after lockdown, main symptoms were lack of power and high fuel consumption.
(Oh, and warm wheels, but nobody else noticed that!)

 

[varesecrazy]

Yes IRC.. a finger on a wheel bolt after a miles drive will tell a tale

 

[DaveMcT]

Or.. as they did 100 years ago

Dampen all 4 branches with water.. and see if 1 or 2 stay Darker for longer

I'd forgotten that one but had recently bought a cheap IR thermometer so that did the job . You could even use a medical type that does surface temperatures. Once it's gone over 100 degs C the heat soak will mask any weak cylinders.

I did this to prove the coils on our 1.2 and the 100HP. All got replaced, because when one is failing others wont be far behind.

1.1 also has that annoying engine ECU connector problem. Try strapping that down with zip ties as it could be creating enough misfire to mess up the fuel consumption. The O2 sensor reads oxygen in exhaust gas. If there is too much O2, the ECU adds more fuel. If you have some cylinders not sparking, the unused oxygen causes the engine to run extremely rich. It should show a fault code but you never know for sure.

 

[09 johno]

change the spark plugs, drop some redex or similar in the tank, fill with E5 super unleaded then go for a long fast drive or drive around in a lower gear than normal to blow out any soot, basically give it an Italian tune up. Chances are its a coked up engine, injectors or blocked exhaust from lots of low speed town driving, the state of the plugs may show this if they are black and sooty or just the wrong ones fitted.

Sorry for sticking my head above the parapet again, i forgot that only the elite few are supposed to answer questions and that 40 years of knowledge are not needed here, my idea was to start with not spending money, but hey who am i to suggest a simple trial, it may or may not fix the issue, but its free (apart from the cost of a cleaner and the fuel) I will go back to just watching the stories unfold........

 

[varesecrazy]

@Revilo

Hi Oliver,

My 1.1 had its 3rd thermostat start passing more fluid than it should

In near freezing conditions the needle would drop from Centre on downhills (off throttle)

They are inexpensive.. and not so bad to change.. I did the first swap at HeadGasket time


Charlie -14 years with a 169 a panda

 

[Revilo]

Thanks all for the replies,

Due to horrendous weather, I have not yet been able to pull the plugs.

I shall be doing it tomorrow at my friend's well equipped garage,

Can read faults too.

However one thing I am noticing while driving, the more I drive the car the more little things you notice.

A bunny hop when lift off the throttle, like a kangerooing,

More noticeable at higher revs/lower gears,

My presumuntion is its an over fuelling, and upon closing the throttle an excess of fuel is making it surge sputter a little.

It feels a little like play in the drive train would feel but more exaggerated.

How would an overfuelling be best measured, I could put it on an Emmissions tester.

Regards Oliver

 

[koalar]

Data log the o2 sensors

Here’s mine

Look at the long term fuel trims

The tend to max out idle if you aren’t running correctly on all cylinders then normalise as the revs raise

Fiat Panda 169/2005 High Fuel Consumption on idle/stationary | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

I am not sure of you're problem, the only thing I can tell is my experience that almost was the same. 1. Started to check every hose of the air intake to check for broken or small cuts. Checkt the intake itself for good sealing to avoid dust in the EGR. 2.Took out the EGR to check for grease or...

www.fiatforum.com