Update on Twinkle's (our Ibiza) front caliper slide pin.

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Update on Twinkle's (our Ibiza) front caliper slide pin.

OP
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Pugglt Auld Jock
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The citroen electric hand brake is just like a manual one, there's a big motor unit in the spare wheel well that pulls the cable like the old handbrake.

My brother had an A5, and left me confused at first looking for the handbrake cable. The new vag ones with motor on the caliper are easy to do too. 12v battery on the connector rewinds it then use the tool. The electronics have a fit when you start the car, but once it's operated twice it's all good again.
Never could see the point of that type of system with the cables and motor, just seems to add unnecessary complication? Luckily I have Vag Com so would use that if I ever have to do an electric one.
 

bugsymike

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I've done loads of rear disc handbrakes, never had to use an electric tool, a £10 chinese copy rewind tool has done the job every time. Though before that it was a fight with long nose pliers.

Drum brakes are a pain, usually involves swearing at various springs, and needing 3 pairs of hands to hold things.
I agree, but I was talking about electronic handbrakes which are totally different!
 
OP
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Never could see the point of that type of system with the cables and motor, just seems to add unnecessary complication? Luckily I have Vag Com so would use that if I ever have to do an electric one.
I was meaning using the VAG COM on an electric one on a VAG vehicle of course. However I must check the embedded generic OBD scanner which is part of the package to see if it allows intervention on non VAG vehicles? I appreciate you've had success applying battery voltage directly to the caliper motor drives, however I'm much to much of a "fierdie" to go around indiscriminately sticking live 12volt supplies into anything I don't have intimate knowledge of on a modern vehicle. I have seen video of how you can manually wind them back but it involves partial dismantling of the caliper to accomplish.

Regarding wind back tools, Many years ago I bought this one:

P1100420.JPG


From what you're saying Vex, I would take a stab at guessing it's the type you have? I think mine was an early Laser tool branded item and I've not yet found a caliper it doesn't work on - very well worth the money. By adding the plate you see on the left it also works very well as a simple piston return tool for the likes of front calipers - you don't use the round "pin plate" when using it to do this.
 

vexorg

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Mine came with about a dozen different disc with various pins. Also has two threaded parts, a lefthand and righthand thread. And in a little rad case, can see how they make all that and sell it for £10
 
OP
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Mine came with about a dozen different disc with various pins. Also has two threaded parts, a lefthand and righthand thread. And in a little rad case, can see how they make all that and sell it for £10
Oh yes, I know the kits of which you speak, much more of a general workshop kit. Mine is only designed for right hand threaded pistons but I did manage to wind a left hand one back with it by just pushing very hard against the piston. None of the "family fleet" have left handed calipers so it's no hardship.

I rather like the idea of the pneumatically operated type, something like this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/393389971317?hash=item5b97de9775:g:O8MAAOSwFBJgwzFj which are not "handed" so can be used on either type of caliper. I like the idea of the pneumatic compression because I do find the tool I have at present can be a little difficult to keep the compressing force on the piston at the same time as it's winding the piston back in, just takes a bit of juggling. I might be tempted if a car joins the family fleet which my old tool won't work with.
 

bugsymike

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Oh yes, I know the kits of which you speak, much more of a general workshop kit. Mine is only designed for right hand threaded pistons but I did manage to wind a left hand one back with it by just pushing very hard against the piston. None of the "family fleet" have left handed calipers so it's no hardship.

I rather like the idea of the pneumatically operated type, something like this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/393389971317?hash=item5b97de9775:g:O8MAAOSwFBJgwzFj which are not "handed" so can be used on either type of caliper. I like the idea of the pneumatic compression because I do find the tool I have at present can be a little difficult to keep the compressing force on the piston at the same time as it's winding the piston back in, just takes a bit of juggling. I might be tempted if a car joins the family fleet which my old tool won't work with.
I am happy using a manual tool and you can feel for any issues, binding etc.
In a different vein, have you watched how people use tools, driving a few days ago I watched a workman helping a couple of young ladies change a wheel, the nut was tight and he was straining hard pulling upwards on the wheel brace, to me the logic was as a big bloke all he had to do was press down and use his weight with foot or hand, much less effort. My other pet hate is watching TV celebrity mechanics using an open ended spanner the wrong way on a nut, I was taught to turn in the direction that put the load on the strongest part of the spanner, if ever you see a broken open ended spanner it is always the short end broken, if it doesn't break, it can stretch the jaws wider. It's why stilsons only work in one direction.
 
OP
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I am happy using a manual tool and you can feel for any issues, binding etc.
In a different vein, have you watched how people use tools, driving a few days ago I watched a workman helping a couple of young ladies change a wheel, the nut was tight and he was straining hard pulling upwards on the wheel brace, to me the logic was as a big bloke all he had to do was press down and use his weight with foot or hand, much less effort. My other pet hate is watching TV celebrity mechanics using an open ended spanner the wrong way on a nut, I was taught to turn in the direction that put the load on the strongest part of the spanner, if ever you see a broken open ended spanner it is always the short end broken, if it doesn't break, it can stretch the jaws wider. It's why stilsons only work in one direction.
I broadly agree with you on the feel a manual tool gives you, especially where smaller sized stuff is concerned. However when it comes to corroded fixings, especially if they are larger in size, I find using an air gun on quite a high torque setting to give it a brief shocking in the direction of tightening before then trying to undo it often meets with success.

On the subject of open enders I have to say I use them only if I can't get a socket or ring key onto the fixing. Although they can be useful once a nut or bolt is broken free, 'specially where access is very limited, to then work it down the thread little by little, half a flat at a time perhaps, by reversing the open end. My automatic choice, space permitting, would be a hex form impact socket then maybe a chrome socket, hex or bi-hex where a thinner sidewall is required with a ring key next. I was always taught to put the force on "towards" the shorter jaw of an open ender so in this picture I would be turning the fixing clockwise to tighten:

P1100421.JPG


I have to say though that one of the most useful things you can use the open end of a combination spanner for is to increase leverage by looping another spanner through one of the jaws or, perhaps, applying a length of tubing:

P1100423.JPG


You do need to be careful the spanner you are using to increase the force doesn't snap because you are using it across it's minor width but, in my experience, if the spanners are of good quality the open ender will usually round off the nut/bolt head before the "helper" spanner snaps - especially if you use a larger size spanner as the extra lever.

As you mention Stilsons I have great respect for that tool family and they - and their close "brothers" of the Footprint family - have often saved me from disaster. As you say their great advantage, over stuff like self locking pliers (Mole etc) is that the harder you pull on the handle the harder they grip the workpiece. The great downside of this is that they tend to mark up the workpiece and can leave quite deep teeth marks which subsequently tend to rust more quickly - I'm thinking of stuff like track rod end locking nuts which can be very tight indeed but you can't get a ring key etc on it because of the track rod itself. I've mentioned this before, but for those who missed it, years ago I came across this wee set of Stanley branded self locking wrenches on a special offer in somewhere like B&Q./Homebase/Wickes (I forget where exactly):

P1100425.JPG


I have some excellent quality Stanley branded tools in my carpentry tool box but I don't think they stack up against the likes of Britool etc for mechanics tools, However they were on a good offer and I liked the idea of them as they seem to work on the same principle as a Stilson/Footprint but with flat driving faces rather than the aggressive teeth of the other tools. If you look here:

P1100426.JPG


You can see that if I turn the handle so the nut is rotated in a clockwise direction, the jaws will tighten against the flats and the harder I apply force to the handle the tighter the tool grips the nut faces, just like the Stilson/Footprint. However it's driving faces are flat so no damage is done to the hex faces. It also has an inherent "ratcheting" ability which is very handy if you find the nut to be a bit too stiff on it's thread to spin by hand after the initial "lock" is broken. All you do is rotate the tool anticlockwise and the jaws open and jump back to the next set of flats ready for you to pull against it again. Another reason why I think it works so well is that it takes a 3 point contact with the nut - the Stilson/footprint grips on opposite sides of the nut - So it has very little tendency to crush the nut onto it's bolt/stud/track rod/whatever, whereas the Stilson/footprint, by gripping on opposite sides of the nut, tends to crush the nut to it's male thread thus tending to lock it up. Although I don't find a lot of use for them when at home - as I have a big choice of other tools - I do use the larger one quite a bit though, almost exclusively, for doing track rod end locking nuts and I always sling them in the boot (trunk) when going on longer journeys. With a size range from 8mm (5/16 for us oldies) to 24mm (15/16) they can cope with most of the stuff I might want to tackle at the roadside.

There was a conversation going in another thread recently about the newer bolt types - splined, Torx , etc - and it occurs to me that the "good old" hex head gave us the possibility of using a number of different tool forms - Sockets (in hex and bihex), open enders, ring keys and tools like these Stanley efforts (I'm sure there are others) to "attack" fixings, whereas the new forms require the specific and only tool so if you can't get access with it you're "shafted"
 

bugsymike

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Spot on, a picture paints a thousand words:)
I don't use Stilsons often, I have a small nearly new genuine pair that if I come across a very rusty brake pipe at a cylinder that even with the pipe snapped off, a impact/hexagon socket still won't grip, that stilson does the job. The steering rack arms is another if heavily corroded and finally I have a 36 inch long pattern one that I used to use down the harbour on mooring chain shackles for my boat.
 

bugsymike

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Spot on, a picture paints a thousand words:)
I don't use Stilsons often, I have a small nearly new genuine pair that if I come across a very rusty brake pipe at a cylinder that even with the pipe snapped off, a impact/hexagon socket still won't grip, that stilson does the job. The steering rack arms is another if heavily corroded and finally I have a 36 inch long pattern one that I used to use down the harbour on mooring chain shackles for my boat.
Just remembered another time I used the large stilson, doing a cam chain on a 1.3 Multijet Grande Punto, to hold the pulley flange when tightening the left handed bolt to it's correct torque.
 
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