Technical Tow bars and towing

[Tinbum]

My post is focused on two equally important points, forgive me if these have been covered separately.

1: The tow bar. This replaces the rear crash beam as far as I can make out, will it have a detrimental effect on rear crash protection?
I am aware there are different grades and price points, but would you have a bar and electric set you would recommend for a Cross 2x4?

2: I have a small boat and trailer totalling approx 300kg, I know this is within unbraked weight, but will it move at all, let alone get up hills? I will have the 1.0 Firefly faux hybrid engine.

Thankyou

 

[Panda IIs]

My post is focused on two equally important points, forgive me if these have been covered separately.

1: The tow bar. This replaces the rear crash beam as far as I can make out, will it have a detrimental effect on rear crash protection?
I am aware there are different grades and price points, but would you have a bar and electric set you would recommend for a Cross 2x4?

2: I have a small boat and trailer totalling approx 300kg, I know this is within unbraked weight, but will it move at all, let alone get up hills? I will have the 1.0 Firefly faux hybrid engine.

Thankyou

Hi,

I will share my experience based on a 4x4 TA 2013.

I fitted a FIAT supplied (it was the cheapest...) towbar kit which is I believe supplied by Westfalia. It has a removable hitch which means it keeps nice and clean in the boot when not in use.

The tow bar does indeed replace the rear crash beam which includes a chunk of energy absorbing aluminum honeycomb; so my engineering background says "yes it will affect any rear impact". I'd anticipate that any impact forces will be passed more directly to the chassis rails (such as they are).

With either fitted any rear impact will write off the rear bumper beyond that wouldn't want to guess what other outcomes would be different regarding towbar v's crash beam.

I can't comment re the new "hybrid" engine but my TA (80BHP) doesn't even blink towing sailing dinghies (Laser 3000 and wooden Contender) both probably of similar weights to your own with launching trolley etc.

Can you test the weight thing out by driving 4 adults around?

 

[Tinbum]

Why didn't I think of that!?��

With the rear protection, it's giving my granddaughters the best chance that matters, they will only be in it very occasionally, but I have no more precious cargo!

 

[Marcus Daly]

I will have the 1.0 Firefly faux hybrid engine.

I’d be surprised if that engine could pull the skin off a rice pudding.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Met a chap with a very small caravan two summers back and while chatting it transpired he had been a Panda owner and had towed a small caravan all over Europe with an aging 1.2. He said it was OK but that id did struggle on steep hills but had never failed to get him where he was going. I am pretty sure a 1.2 would tow 300kgs but don't forget its the weight of the trailer adn its load you must factor in. Having tried the 500 hybrid I am not convinced that would be as good. A lot of electric cars are no tow. If towing the battery would not contribute for long before being expended so your down to 64 HP or so. It would make it a bit slow. Panda Twinair is staggeringly good at towing. There are some Polish removable bars on eBay that look decent enough for around £100. I would recommend a plug in wiring kit at they are so much easier and neater to install. If not you need a 7 way by pass relay kit and its more of a fiddle. I have a Westfalia removable bar (i think mis-priced at £124) and its easy to use. This is the first bar I have had with a proper socket plate hinge that is also easy to use and not subject to seizure due to corrosion. When removed you would never know the car has a railway track bumper support and the socket is also invisible.

Re crash protection, I think much safer, as much stronger, but if you are hit from behind it will surely lead to worse structural damage and raise the likelihood of a write off so make certain you inform your insurer.

 

[Tinbum]

Thankyou, just an fyi but the faux hybrid only contributes 1hp to the 70 total

I have a Range Rover Sport and Porsche Cayman for when I want power. This is a toy and I want to tow my toy boat with it!

(Yeah, I'm a big child)

 

[Leroypanda]

Anyone know the model cut off year when the Panda wasnt allowed to tow any more?

 

[R1NGA]

Anyone know the model cut off year when the Panda wasnt allowed to tow any more?

No such thing really as "not allowed to tow", it's all governed by weight and size. No reason that a Panda can't tow something appropriately sized. I was told once that it was "illegal to tow anything with an RS6", which was complete rubbish. Audi chose not to Type Approve a towbar for the RS6, but an S6 kit, correctly fitted, is perfectly legal, provided the towing capacities tie up. There are a lot of people who tow race and track cars with RS6's, that's for sure....

 

[Leroypanda]

I'll rephrase it then. Anyone know when Fiat stopped putting the towing information on the cars vin plate.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

@R1NGA I think it is technically true that newer model Pandas are not allowed to tow anything because the VIN plate no longer shows two different weights (one for the car's max weight and the other for a max train weight - ie the car plus a trailer). Prior this change, two weights were shown which were different by 800 kg (petrol) or 900kg (diesel) - the max permitted towing weight for a trailer fitted with brakes. Now, with the max train weight shown as the same as the gross vehicle weight, that means the car is not allowed to be fitted with a tow bar, and a reputable towbar installation business should say 'we can't install one'. Of course, that does't stop you fitting one yourself... but if there were then to be an accident, it could get 'tricky'.

To @Leroypanda's original question - don't know when the change happened: my diesel 4x4, registered 31 March 2018 still shows the two weights, so it is more recent than that

In the photo below ( and love how I can now paste a photo straight in with the new version of the forum) - 1595kg is max vehicle weight fully laden, 2495 is 'max train weight' (fully laden car plus braked trailer). The other two weights are max load in the front and rear axle

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

By the way, in reference my reply above and to the earlier posts in this tread by @Tinbum and @Panda IIs - note that the original question was asked about towing with a Panda Hybrid. The Hybrid I suspect will show on the VIN plate identical weights for gross weight and max train weight, and so cannot legally be used to tow anything - even if only a 'toy' boat... The VIN data plate is inside the boot, under the mat on the right hand side

 

[DKMark]

In Denmark my 80HP TA lounge is rated at 800Kg (Braked I imagine.)

 

[Leroypanda]

Wow as late as 2018! Maybe an upgrade may be possible..

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Looking at various towbar makes and suppliers (as I’m still planning on fitting one to mine), it seems the new Hybrid models and any of the non-4x4 versions of the Cross (City, Waze etc) are specifically excluded from towing, but that other models may still be ok. Also any model with natural gas power cannot tow (not sold here in the U.K. anyway).