Technical Timing Up A 1.6 16v Stilo ??help Anyone

[gazza123]

HI EVERYONE,PLEASE CAN SOMEONE ADVISE ON ANY HELP WITH THE TIMING UP MY 2002 1.6 16V STILO...IT RECENTLY STRIPPED ABOUT 20 TEETH OFF THE BELT AND BENT ALL 16 VALVES,,,EVERYTHING IS NOW BACK TOGETHER AND I HAVE USED SOME OLD TIMING MARKS TO TIME IT UP... TURNS OVER BY HAND NICELY SO I HAVE BUILT IT AT THAT BUT IT DOES NOT FIRE...BUT I NEED A TIMING TOOL TO SET THE CAMS UP TO CHECK I HAVE THE TIMING CORRECT BEFORE I MOVE MY ATTENTION SOMEWHERE ELSE?...I CANNOT GET ONE FOR LOVE NOR MONEY,,,IS THERE ANOTHER WAY OF KNOWING THE CAM POSITIONS WITH NUMBER 1 CYLINDER AT TOP DEAD CENTRE ?????
PLEASE HELP SOMEONE.......CHEERS...GAZ :bang: :bang: :bang:

 

[Hellcat]

My head hurts trying to read CAPS...

Would have said shop4parts.co.uk but they don't do them for the Stilo.

 

[Deckchair5]

Strewth! What mileage was that Gazza as I have the same beastie?
Did the tensioner fail or did you have any warning noises?

What "old timing marks" do you mean? Did you make your own?

 

[gazza123]

sorry guys....its done around 115k,,,the belt was last changed i think around 70k and thats where the old marks are from......i bought the car as a non runner you see...the belt was just worn and the teeth had begun to come away from the belt....and the rest is as you know.......so i need to time the bloody thing now,,,anyone provide any pics or advice,,,maybe anyone knows the valve opening before t.d.c at number 1 in degrees???a manual would show this info.....dreading taking it to fiat dealer,,,dreading it !!!!!!!!!gaz

 

[Deckchair5]

Well they've certainly made that difficult. Looks like the camshaft locking tools they use are a kind of cover you bolt up to the end of each of the camshaft end which aligns with a groove in each camshaft when the crankshaft is at it's timing marks

Have you asked if you can buy them from Fiat? They don't look expensive items. Maybe you can hire them (or maybe not)

I can't see any way around it without using the proper tools. How difficult is it to gain access to the camshaft ends to see the timing marks/grooves? If you know someone with another 1.6 I suppose you could get the relative positions from those but it wouldn't be that accurate.

If it won't fire at all then I would have thought the crankshaft/camshaft timings must be dangerously out or something else is wrong. Is the crankshaft sensor all ok and in position?

Now there's a point, I wonder if you're one revolution out on the crankshaft. Especially if you've lost all synchronisation between crank and cams like you have, you could have all the timing marks in line but the crank could be one complete revolution out

 

[gazza123]

Hi,,,,,yes I Have Tried Fiat Dealer In Sheffield And Chesterfielld,,,they Both Say The Tool Is No Longer Available For Retail Sale...yeah Right.....but They Cannot Loan Out Their Tool Either...yeah Right....but Will Gladly Take Our Money To Time It Up Themselves...just Tryin To Beat The System You See...i Dont Think Im Gonna Be Able To Though...i Dont Want To Spend Money On Other Things Until I Know For Sure The Timing Is Bang On You See.....well What I Thought Was A Bargain Is Startin To Look Not So.......cheers Anyway ..gaz

 

[thepottleflump]

Got any local Fiat specialists? Unfortunately that sort of attitude from the garage works against them. They need to be building relationships with their customers, helping them run their cars not sending them away.

 

[Deckchair5]

I'll say it again in case you missed it

I wonder if you're one revolution out on the crankshaft. Especially if you've lost all synchronisation between crank and cams like you have, you could have all the timing marks in line but the crank could be one complete revolution out

If the timing marks you have were good enugh before then they'll be good enough now but if youre one rev out on the crankshaft then you'll have compression stroke at the wrong time

 

[PNL]

I'll say it again in case you missed it

I wonder if you're one revolution out on the crankshaft. Especially if you've lost all synchronisation between crank and cams like you have, you could have all the timing marks in line but the crank could be one complete revolution out

If the timing marks you have were good enugh before then they'll be good enough now but if youre one rev out on the crankshaft then you'll have compression stroke at the wrong time

:yeahthat: as decks said one revelution out your huffin instead of puffin

 

[gazza123]

well,,,its done......had to purchase the tool kit from p.c.s in chesterfield for £112 ..can't beleive it only took 5 mins with this tool...but now its running very well and puts an end to this very awkward situation....so if anyone wants to purchase this tool from me let me know...no point having it sat gathering dust someone should be able to make use of it,,,i hope
thaNKS to all who helped anyway
cheers
gaz

 

[Deckchair5]

Well done Gazza!
Was it difficult access to install the cambelt and tension it up?

 

[gazza123]

hi again,,,,not too difficult after removing engine mount,,,only problem now is one of the individual coils has failed...:bang: is this just how unreliable these cars are????but anyway yes with this tool i bought the timing is easy as shelling peas,,,i certainly would not pay anyone to change my belt.....but it depends how confident you are????????any idea how much these coils are ?????????gaz

 

[Stu DemonD]

A coil pack is around the £30 to £35 mark from the dealer.

 

[Stilo_ste]

To a previous post about crank being 'one revolution out'

Is this actually possible? The crank rotates twice for one revolution of the cam - and it is the cam that controls valve opening. So I don't think it is possible to have the crank 360 deg's out of position. The crank position sensor also counts each and every rotation, so wouldn't be 'out'. The cam sensor would be used for spark and fuel injection.

Based on this, and the fact that I do know a little about engines, I think this is not true.

Can any one disagree with that?

 

[Deckchair5]

To be honest, I don't know. It used to totally possible ( I did it once) on engines with distributors and rotor arms. If the rotor arm wasn't pointing at the correct HT lead in the cap when everything was lined up then you could be one full rev out

With modern engines I can't guess if it's so significant or whether something would be out of phase.

I can't think of any other reason why Gazza'a engine didn't have a sign of life when all the timing marks were in line but then worked fine once the timing tools were used

 

[gazza123]

i think the answer to the last remark i can shed some light on......the marks of white paint we were following were for some reason nowhere near where we should have been,,,this all became apparent when the alignment tool was fitted to the cams which put everything in the correct position.,,and highlighted how far out the timing was !!! the only thing that led us to believe the marks were correct is the fact the engine was turning over by hand ok and not locking up against the valves as it would if the valve timing was out....confusing i know,,anyway fitted new coil pack today and drove it for the first time and have to admit im very impressed with it,bearing in mind the mileage of 117 k...well i have the tool advertised if anyone can make use of it on here,,,just let me know,,,cheers all,,gaz

 

[Deckchair5]

Mystery solved then. You were lucky not to have any collisions if the timing gear was that far out. Glad it's running well now. Tough motors really. Nice to hear they're going up to that kind of mileage without problems

 

[neilbonner464]

well,,,its done......had to purchase the tool kit from p.c.s in chesterfield for £112 ..can't beleive it only took 5 mins with this tool...but now its running very well and puts an end to this very awkward situation....so if anyone wants to purchase this tool from me let me know...no point having it sat gathering dust someone should be able to make use of it,,,i hope
thaNKS to all who helped anyway
cheers
gaz

send me a private message and il get in touch

 

[Argonought]

Use the PM or email option to contact the member yourself

You're asking a lot to get a response from 4+ year old thread