Had a look at the belt repacement on youtube ( non timing toolkit )
by ciro cerrulo
if possible
what type of engine in the vid
what's the thoughts on this ?..
as it appears pretty straightforward
Hello punto grandad, Would I be correct to assume from your "handle" that you are a man of mature years, just as I am? and can I ask if you have a good working knowledge engines and a reasonably well stocked tool kit? If so the following may be of interest.
Is this the Video you watched?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiIXCJ7PDtw&t=214s if so the engine is one of the 8 valve F.I.R.E. family with Variable Valve Technology (This is obvious from the design of the cam pulley which has a pressed metal cover on the front and , if you look at the cam cover behind the plastic top cover, you can see the electric solenoid valve that controls the flow of oil to the pulley) This engine design, with small variations - most notably that older versions don't have the VVT pulley on the cam - is the one most often found in Puntos and Pandas. The timing belt on this engine was in very poor condition and if I took the top cover off on my engine and saw a belt in that condition I'd be hiding the ignition keys until I'd renewed it! The aux belt (fan belt in "old money") was also well past needing to be renewed. When Multi V belts start to crack up like this they have a nasty habit of jumping off their pulleys and can tear up the timing belt guards or wrap themselves round the shafts and destroy the oil seals. Ignore these warning signs at your peril.
Asking what my thoughts are on this is just too much for me to resist so, sorry folks, just can't seem to resist sticking my head in the "lion's mouth" whenever this topic comes up.
The first thing for anyone considering doing a timing belt on one of these engines is to read Andy Monty's definitive guide on the subject which you'll find in the guides in the Grande Punto section:
https://www.fiatforum.com/grande-punto-guides/237966-1-2-8v-evo-2-engine-cam-belt-replacement.html Follow that and you really can't go wrong.
However when I came to do the belts on both my own Panda (2010 1.2 Dynamic Eco with "solid", non VVT, cam sprocket) and my boy's Punto (2012 1.4 Easy with VVT cam sprocket and looking just like the one in Ciro's video) I wanted to explore if it could be done without using a kit of locking tools so I set out to try and here's my post on my experience:
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda/459903-beckys-timing-belt-ongoing-saga.html?459903=#post4338582
The one great "unknown" if you are not going to use the locking tools is whether the engine is correctly timed up before you start because if you don't use the locking tools then, assuming you've not messed things up totally, when you're finished the engine camshaft/crankshaft timing will be exactly as it was before you started. So if it was "wrong" when you started, you've done nothing which will correct this, so it will be "wrong" when you've finished. The problem arises because on these "later" engines the camshaft sprocket if not keyed to the camshaft, So, as soon as you slacken the big bolt in the middle of the cam sprocket (which is under the blanking plug you can see on the front of the pulley you see in Ciro's video so expect oil to leak out when you unscrew it to access the retaining bolt underneath) The timing is irretrievably lost unless you have the timing tools to lock the engine up with. By the way the VVT pulley engine is an interference design, so, get it "wrong" and the valves and pistons will get "intimate", and not in a good way.
So from my point of view, I'm very happy to do a belt on one of these engines without the timing tools BUT ONLY IF IT'S AN ENGINE I'M ABSOLUTELY SURE IS CORRECTLY TIMED UP IN THE FIRST PLACE. So I'm talking about a first belt change where I can be sure the sprocket was last tightened in the factory at original build. Or an engine I know well and have myself checked with the locking tools in the past, like our Panda and Punto, so know they are set up "right". I paid around £40, if I remember correctly - maybe I mentioned how much in that "Becky" post? - and I've seen them cheaper, so maybe worth buying anyway?
These engines are at the "simpler" end of the "difficulty" scale in the grand scheme of cam belt changes. The crankshaft sprocket is keyed so will only fit in the one position. Personally I'd always use a full kit including water pump and only from a big name manufacturer (Gates having being my preferred brand for very many years) Also carefully check crank and cam oil seals as if they show the slightest signs of leaking now's a good time to do them whilst you've got most of the "gubbins" out of the way to do the belt.
Having completed the change and with every thing "buttoned up" you may find that your first trip out on a faster road brings on the Engine Management Light. Scanning the codes tends to bring up a code related to a misfire and, of course it could be. But more likely, if you've just renewed the cam belt, is that the ECU has detected a slight difference between the cam/crank phasing. These engines have both cam and crankshaft sensors and the ECU gets to know their angular relationship to each other. A new belt, or a very slight difference in phasing when the cam sprocket is slackened and retightened with a new belt in position, can upset this phasing enough to "upset" the ECU. It doesn't know what's caused this new relationship and records a misfire code because it doesn't actually have one which exactly fits the problem it's "seeing". If this happens a "Phonic Wheel Reset" needs to be performed (other manufacturers often call this an ECU Reset) which teaches the ECU to accept the new settings as "satisfactory" You'll need either the FIAT dealer's workshop computer or
Multiecuscan to do this. It's not a "given" that this will be necessary, neither our Panda or Punto got "upset" and were happy to just carry on. The big giveaway with this particular "fault" is that although it's got a "misfire" code stored, you'll be puzzled because you'll never have detected any of the driving characteristics of a misfire - ie, no uneven exhaust beat and no jerks whilst accelerating etc.
In conclusion I think I'd advise that if you are experienced and have previously dismantled major parts of engines and done timing belts/chains before so you really understand Nikolaus Otto's wondrous invention so you're not going to be hopelessly stuck if something doesn't go as you expected, then do get stuck in and enjoy every moment! But if in doubt play safe and buy the tools. Sorting out the results of getting it wrong is very time consuming, inconvenient and often expensive!
Good luck and kindest regards
Jock
