tell me about.. mg zr 1.4

[levemircento]

the missus wants one of these cars, in the past we have had a rover 214, we know about problems with the head gasket on these engines, so anything else you can tell me about the zr please do, do they drive well? good/bad on fuel? etc etc

 

[dave]

time to change the missus i reckon

 

[Bushboy]

The 1.4 is a fantastic car. Head gasket should be ok. It's the larger engines that suffer more although the 1.4 isn't immune.

Excellent on fuel. Should do 35-40mpg easily. They are super revy engines and great fun to drive. Great handling although the Zachary is better.

Nice and roomy inside. Very comfy too.

You would be daft not to buy one IMO.

 

[AndyRKett]

despite rover being a bit of a joke i am inclined to agree with Bushboy they do have a lot of head gasket problems but other than that they are fine, just remember they are cheaply build so you tend to find switches and buttons can break which you wont find on many other cars

 

[Venters]

I was working in a dealership just as Rover MG went bust, so got a lot in brand new cheap. Peppy little cars, but damn the interior was fragile. If one came in that had a securely attached gearknob everyone used to gather round to check in disbelief.

 

[johnstoke]

Can't tell you too much about the 1.4, but 6 months ago I bought a mg zr td 115 and it's such a love/hate thing with it. Had quite a few suspension and electrical problems, now resolved, and is now proving to be reliable, averaging 400 miles a week. After having an astra that was totally reliable with 240,000 miles on it, the reliability at first was annoying, but I don't think the last owner looked after it, and now it is hassle free.
Love the way it handles, the handling is quite impressive, I have never once managed to make it understeer. The L series engine, though not as refined as a JTD engine is grunty and economical. Trim rattles a bit, and the ride is a bit firm. I don't mind it as a driver but not sure if I'd like to be a passenger in it........

 

[middo85]

I had a 53 plate 1.4 ZR 105 before my t-jet and loved it.

Excellent handling, cheap to run and good performance for a NA 1.4.

They do have a dated interior and firm ride.

Mine was very reliable, although they do need very regular checks on fluid levels to avoid head gasket issues. They are very easy to work on and parts were cheap, however they might be rarer these days.

Id have another

 

[portland_bill]

It'll be much the same as your 214. The MG bit just makes the cheap trim posher, still fragile and prone to ageing quicker than most.
The age-old thing about head gaskets, sadly is not really a head gasket fault. The head gasket is the victim, not a cause.
This engine is a wet liner design. Instead of the bores being machined into the block casting, they are separate cylinders, sealed at the bottom by an O-ring and the top by the head gasket. This allows a smaller coolant volume in the block, allowing faster warm-up. Downside is it will not tolerate any water loss, a problem when Rover have never managed to keep water inside their water pumps dating back to the A30. Even a small loss of coolant can cause the engine to run hot. The cylinder liners sit on a narrow ledge in the aluminium block, which tends to sink a little when too hot. The liners drop a little, and the head gasket no longer seals. Replacing the gasket effects only a temporary cure as it is trying to seal a gap that is too large.
Genuine Unipart, later Rover's own remanufactured engines have the liner ledge machined and special, longer liners fitted to make all good again. These are exclusive and not available elsewhere.
Never buy one with any signs of overheating problems.
Watch the coolant level, any loss, fix it immediately, or sooner!
Once the "head gasket" has gone, replacement is probably only a temporary fix. Only permanent cure is a genuine factory remanufactured engine.
Super little engine otherwise.

 

[bgunn]

It'll be much the same as your 214. The MG bit just makes the cheap trim posher, still fragile and prone to ageing quicker than most.
The age-old thing about head gaskets, sadly is not really a head gasket fault. The head gasket is the victim, not a cause.
This engine is a wet liner design. Instead of the bores being machined into the block casting, they are separate cylinders, sealed at the bottom by an O-ring and the top by the head gasket.

Sorry, that's not true. The very early (pre around '95) engines had wet liners sealed with O rings, but post '95 engines have 'damp liner' engines where only half of the liner is surrounded by coolant, the lower half is a hand press fit into the block. The ledge is sealed with hylomar.

This allows a smaller coolant volume in the block, allowing faster warm-up. Downside is it will not tolerate any water loss, a problem when Rover have never managed to keep water inside their water pumps dating back to the A30.

Please don't pedal lies - for a start, Rover never made the A30, as the 'A' signifies Austin who manufactured the car 35 years before the K series was even designed and nearer 40 before it was launched. The K series is no more leaky than any other; the water pump is cam belt driven like many cars and is no more likely to leak.

Even a small loss of coolant can cause the engine to run hot. The cylinder liners sit on a narrow ledge in the aluminium block, which tends to sink a little when too hot.

Actually, this is rare - you'll have absolutely trashed the engine through overheating to get the lowest part of the block hot enough to soften the quench hardened aluminium. Coolant loss through a radiator failure or leaking hoses is no more a cause of failure than any other car.

The liners drop a little, and the head gasket no longer seals. Replacing the gasket effects only a temporary cure as it is trying to seal a gap that is too large.

No. The head softening will be the cause, the quench hardened deck surface of the head will get too hot, and the fire ring of the gasket will hammer into the surface, along with micro porosity allowing coolant in. What the K series cannot tolerate is running on a low antifreeze/anticorrosion additive concentration, suffering from rapid erosion of the block/head and other parts if run on neat water.

Genuine Unipart, later Rover's own remanufactured engines have the liner ledge machined and special, longer liners fitted to make all good again. These are exclusive and not available elsewhere.

No they don't - there's no such thing. If the liner standproud is incorrect, it's not too difficult an operation to machine the deck surface of the block to ensure the liners stand around 4 - 10 thou proud.

Never buy one with any signs of overheating problems.
Watch the coolant level, any loss, fix it immediately, or sooner!
Once the "head gasket" has gone, replacement is probably only a temporary fix. Only permanent cure is a genuine factory remanufactured engine.
Super little engine otherwise.

There is no factory in the UK making the K series (OK, the updated version - the N series - is being made in China, but is different in a few important ways), so getting a factory remanufactured engine would be difficult. Permanent cure to gasket fail is to inspect the head carefully, do a hardness test on the surface around a number of points and bin if too soft. If the head is good, a light peening around the fire ring locations before skimming can help compress and consolidate the aluminium and help prevent future issues.

The main thing people do miss is the liner stand proud, if not even and at around 10 thou, the gasket will go and go again.

 

[portland_bill]

Sorry, that's not true. The very early (pre around '95) engines had wet liners sealed with O rings, but post '95 engines have 'damp liner' engines where only half of the liner is surrounded by coolant, the lower half is a hand press fit into the block. The ledge is sealed with hylomar.

True, but they still suffer the same problems of this ledge receding a little.

Please don't pedal lies - for a start, Rover never made the A30, as the 'A' signifies Austin who manufactured the car 35 years before the K series was even designed and nearer 40 before it was launched. The K series is no more leaky than any other; the water pump is cam belt driven like many cars and is no more likely to leak.

Lies? Bit strong isn't it? As a moderator you should be looking to control such language, not propagate it.
Austin - BMC - British Leyland - Austin Rover - Rover. Water pump leaks in them all. A-series was being produced alongside K-series for a short time during changeover from Austin Metro to Rover Metro and in the mini until end of production, under the Rover banner.
Water pump being cambelt driven makes no difference to whether it can keep water inside. Just that leaks are more difficult to determine. My experience is that K-series water pumps are the most likely first leak, and if not rectified and coolant not topped up will lead to engine failure. Water pump usually only leaks while running, so escaping coolant evaporates. Hidden inside cambelt housing staining is not seen, so not diagnosed.

Actually, this is rare - you'll have absolutely trashed the engine through overheating to get the lowest part of the block hot enough to soften the quench hardened aluminium. Coolant loss through a radiator failure or leaking hoses is no more a cause of failure than any other car.



No. The head softening will be the cause, the quench hardened deck surface of the head will get too hot, and the fire ring of the gasket will hammer into the surface, along with micro porosity allowing coolant in. What the K series cannot tolerate is running on a low antifreeze/anticorrosion additive concentration, suffering from rapid erosion of the block/head and other parts if run on neat water.

So the quench hardened block will not suffer, but the quench hardened head will. ?

No they don't - there's no such thing.

Your information comes from where? Mine from working for the company that supplied the engines on behalf of Rover, which owned the company that remanufactured the engines.

There is no factory in the UK making the K series (OK, the updated version - the N series - is being made in China, but is different in a few important ways), so getting a factory remanufactured engine would be difficult. Permanent cure to gasket fail is to inspect the head carefully, do a hardness test on the surface around a number of points and bin if too soft. If the head is good, a light peening around the fire ring locations before skimming can help compress and consolidate the aluminium and help prevent future issues.

I have not mentioned making the engines. Remanufacturing is different and not the same as rebuilding or refurbishing.

 

[bgunn]

True, but they still suffer the same problems of this ledge receding a little.



Lies? Bit strong isn't it? As a moderator you should be looking to control such language, not propagate it.

Err, I don't believe that moderators should suddenly stop having a view on something.

Austin - BMC - British Leyland - Austin Rover - Rover. Water pump leaks in them all. A-series was being produced alongside K-series for a short time during changeover from Austin Metro to Rover Metro and in the mini until end of production, under the Rover banner.

FIAT, Alfa, VW, Audi. Want to reel off more automotive manufacturer names? They all suffer water pump leaks occasionally. Why are you suggesting that the K series suffered a leaking water pump more than any other marque?

Water pump being cambelt driven makes no difference to whether it can keep water inside. Just that leaks are more difficult to determine. My experience is that K-series water pumps are the most likely first leak, and if not rectified and coolant not topped up will lead to engine failure. Water pump usually only leaks while running, so escaping coolant evaporates. Hidden inside cambelt housing staining is not seen, so not diagnosed.

Yes, that's fine, but you actually suggested that the K water pump is more likely to leak than any other.

So the quench hardened block will not suffer, but the quench hardened head will. ?

Err, do you understand that there's a temperature gradient across the coolant within an engine, due to there being a temperature gradient across the engine itself? If the base of the block (where the liner ledge is) was as hot as the area immediately surrounding the combustion chamber, then liner recession would be the least of your problems.

Your information comes from where? Mine from working for the company that supplied the engines on behalf of Rover, which owned the company that remanufactured the engines.

You worked for Powertrain then? My information comes from experience, a number of K series tuners, and factory contacts. And I mean Powertrain - not a third party engine remanufacturer factory.

I have not mentioned making the engines. Remanufacturing is different and not the same as rebuilding or refurbishing.

Shall I look back at this?

Only permanent cure is a genuine factory remanufactured engine.

You said a 'genuine factory remanufactured engine'. That supposes that the engine is remanufactured in the factory it was originally produced (or by the maker that did so). As neither exist in their original form (and SAIC really won't give a ****e about a 10 year old MGR car as they barely care about currently produced models), I think you'll struggle in this regard.

To the OP - don't believe the cr@p that's pedalled about the K engine, properly repaired (like anything, really) it'll be no more unreliable than any other.

 

[dave]

Err, I don't believe that moderators should suddenly stop having a view on something.

best check the mod rules

 

[portland_bill]

Err, I don't believe that moderators should suddenly stop having a view on something.

Of course moderators are entitled to their views. I doubt anyone on here deliberately lies, they just state their opinion or what they believe to be true. Other opinions and experiences are welcome, the more different views we get the better we can understand the bigger picture or whole story.

Moderators should control bad behaviour, rudeness or accusations. "Moderate" in all its meanings.

 

[bgunn]

Of course moderators are entitled to their views. I doubt anyone on here deliberately lies, they just state their opinion or what they believe to be true. Other opinions and experiences are welcome, the more different views we get the better we can understand the bigger picture or whole story.

Moderators should control bad behaviour, rudeness or accusations. "Moderate" in all its meanings.

Fair enough, I guess I should have changed the way I wrote the post.

I meant 'pedal lies' in the context that it could be construed as a lie, that you were then passing on, not necessarily that you lie.

Lets just talk about cars

 

[portland_bill]

Fair enough.

 

[fingers99]

K Series is a really nice, innovative engine. It's light, too! Main drawback is it's not oversquare enough, so never develops the same kind of power figures as a Zetec or Ecotec.

BBR used to offer a 300bhp turbo version with some kind of guarantee............

 

[zinc]

Apart from leaking head gaskets, the other common problem are the heater switch going off and only working on maximum, thats easy to fix, and the windows overshooting or trying to come up unevenly .

 

[johnstoke]

As I have recently found out, head gaskets do go on the turbodiesel as well, not often as the petrol ones, but mine died 2 weeks ago. Given their are quite a few bits and pieces that need sorting on the car(non-terminal in themselves) I scrapped mine and now looking for another jtd punto.

It's a pity as the car drove really well, and they have almost telepathic handlng, even the work's 59 reg fiesta feels stodgy to drive in comparison.

 

[Yazza54]

K Series is a really nice, innovative engine. It's light, too! Main drawback is it's not oversquare enough, so never develops the same kind of power figures as a Zetec or Ecotec.

BBR used to offer a 300bhp turbo version with some kind of guarantee............

Correct, well kind of, it's not at all over square it's under square. You can't make decent power/Rpm from a K series without absolutely hammering pistons I've heard of a few being tuned to high output but they really don't last long. Not a problem for a road engine though and the long stroke gives a nice broad torque spread.

However the small k series are actually better designed engines for this reason. The k series was never initially designed to be any larger than 1.1 and throughout its lifetime it gradually got bored and stroked. They got as far as they could with the bore and had to make it a long stroke motor to get to 1.8, but the 1.4 is a peach.

Not that I ever really had any problems with my 1.8 VVC.

Main head gasket issue was that the early models had a single layer head gasket and plastic dowels which were not resilient when the car got warm especially when the head suffered thermal shock with the poor thermostat design. However by the time of the MGZRs they had steel dowels and multi layer gaskets, so don't worry about it.

Typically the k series was a bloody brilliant engine, which suffered a few fundamental design errors, but by the time they were sorted the reputation was already shot.

 

[portland_bill]

Resurrecting an old thread perhaps.

Typically the k series was a bloody brilliant engine, which suffered a few fundamental design errors, but by the time they were sorted the reputation was already shot.

That sums up Austin, BL, BLMC, Austin Rover, and Rover is all its guises from 1950 until its demise.
More modern examples:
Allegro, Mk3, quite a nice car, sales already stopped.
Maxi 3, same as above.
Marina 3, at last drives and handles nicely, oops, where have all the customers gone.
Princess 2, final models before Ambassador, very plush, no more driveshaft issues, no more buyers.
TR7, last models quite well put together, can't sell 'em.
SD1, last few years, actually well put together, but no sales.
MGB! Last of the line were quite comfortable. Final editions in silver and gold created lots of showroom traffic, everyone saying what a pity they were not being made any more, but no-one bought them. Where I worked we had 3, couldn't give them away. All registered as demonstrators and sold as used cars.