Technical Swap 500cc to 650cc HELP!

[JulesFiat500]

Hello to all on this forum

Just joined, so please excuse any ignorance of protocols or procedures!

My wife has a 1972 ‘bog standard’ Fiat 500L that I am contemplating swapping out the standard 500cc engine for a Fiat 126 650cc engine and gearbox (this could be very useful as we have recently moved to Exmoor/North Devon (U.K.), which is VERY hilly, and the extra power is needed!

I have read and understood various accounts of what is required, and my mechanical abilities are ‘reasonable/good’, but understanding and actual experience are not quite the same and I am wondering if there is anyone out there who has done this conversion that could assist me as a mentor and (physical) helper for which I am happy to pay for their time.

My wife is also a member of the Fiat500 club if that’s worth anything?

Please let me know of any possibilities!

Many thanks in advance,

Jules

 

[fiat500]

Hello to all on this forum

Just joined, so please excuse any ignorance of protocols or procedures!

My wife has a 1972 ‘bog standard’ Fiat 500L that I am contemplating swapping out the standard 500cc engine for a Fiat 126 650cc engine and gearbox (this could be very useful as we have recently moved to Exmoor/North Devon (U.K.), which is VERY hilly, and the extra power is needed!

I have read and understood various accounts of what is required, and my mechanical abilities are ‘reasonable/good’, but understanding and actual experience are not quite the same and I am wondering if there is anyone out there who has done this conversion that could assist me as a mentor and (physical) helper for which I am happy to pay for their time.

My wife is also a member of the Fiat500 club if that’s worth anything?

Please let me know of any possibilities!

Many thanks in advance,

Jules

Hi Jules, I hope someone has the time, and is near enough to help you.
You can be sure that if you start this, and get in a pickle, there are plenty of people here who will give long-distance advice , or point you in the right direction.

Do you have the replacements already? It is possible that a bit of tweaking the settings could improve things a lot on your existing engine....Italy can be quite a hilly place too.

 

[JulesFiat500]

Hi Jules, I hope someone has the time, and is near enough to help you.
You can be sure that if you start this, and get in a pickle, there are plenty of people here who will give long-distance advice , or point you in the right direction.

Do you have the replacements already? It is possible that a bit of tweaking the settings could improve things a lot on your existing engine....Italy can be quite a hilly place too.

Hi Jules, I hope someone has the time, and is near enough to help you.
You can be sure that if you start this, and get in a pickle, there are plenty of people here who will give long-distance advice , or point you in the right direction.

Do you have the replacements already? It is possible that a bit of tweaking the settings could improve things a lot on your existing engine....Italy can be quite a hilly place too.

Thank you for your reply … I don’t have the ‘new’ engine and box yet, but is imminent to receive and will be fitted as not just extra power needed, but also a synchromesh gearbox is standard … As for driving in Italy … Stayed at Sorrento this summer and hired a modern car …. BEAUTIFUL scenery (and yes, pretty hilly), but I have never been so frightened in my life by the ‘locals’ driving ‘standards’ … They don’t take prisoners, and am convinced have a contract with the Devil!!!

 

[fiat500]

Thank you for your reply … I don’t have the ‘new’ engine and box yet, but is imminent to receive and will be fitted as not just extra power needed, but also a synchromesh gearbox is standard … As for driving in Italy … Stayed at Sorrento this summer and hired a modern car …. BEAUTIFUL scenery (and yes, pretty hilly), but I have never been so frightened in my life by the ‘locals’ driving ‘standards’ … They don’t take prisoners, and am convinced have a contract with the Devil!!!

In Sorrento and all around the Amalfi coast you will have seen that it's "plagued" with original 500's; I got loads of photos there.
If you have bought the engine described as ready to fit, the initial part of fitting a complete syncromesh gearbox and 126 engine combination is more or less reverse order of the 500 engine and gearbox removal; and that is fairly intuitive.
The complications, such as they are, are mainly around wiring, (if it has an alternator), sorting out the starter cable, or fitting a switch. organising the heater pipes and ducts, modifying or changing the exhaust heat-shield, and
swapping the engine mounting.
If you receive the engine and gearbox in the condition it was taken from a 126, possibly the most challenging job is replacing the driveshafts with the ones correct for the 500 rear track width. But if it is in a "raw" state there might be a lot of things needing attention!
All of these things have been covered on this forum, and there are some excellent webpages and video online.
Good luck.

 

[JulesFiat500]

Hi Jules, I hope someone has the time, and is near enough to help you.
You can be sure that if you start this, and get in a pickle, there are plenty of people here who will give long-distance advice , or point you in the right direction.

Do you have the replacements already? It is possible that a bit of tweaking the settings could improve things a lot on your existing engine....Italy can be quite a hilly place too.

In Sorrento and all around the Amalfi coast you will have seen that it's "plagued" with original 500's; I got loads of photos there.
If you have bought the engine described as ready to fit, the initial part of fitting a complete syncromesh gearbox and 126 engine combination is more or less reverse order of the 500 engine and gearbox removal; and that is fairly intuitive.
The complications, such as they are, are mainly around wiring, (if it has an alternator), sorting out the starter cable, or fitting a switch. organising the heater pipes and ducts, modifying or changing the exhaust heat-shield, and
swapping the engine mounting.
If you receive the engine and gearbox in the condition it was taken from a 126, possibly the most challenging job is replacing the driveshafts with the ones correct for the 500 rear track width. But if it is in a "raw" state there might be a lot of things needing attention!
All of these things have been covered on this forum, and there are some excellent webpages and video online.
Good luck.

Thank you for your further reply … Yes, the Amalfi Coast is stunning, but for an English driver, quite a terrifying first time driving experience … NOT for the faint hearted! …. Regarding the Fiat engine/gearbox etc, as I have mentioned previously, I have read up loads on how to approach doing this (most verbal guidance is similar to yours), but there are so many variables/unknowns, and ideally, I would like the (experienced) help/guidance of someone local to assist me? …. All else failing, I will follow my nose to see how I get on without any assistance! … PS … My wife’s car was imported to the U.K. from Puglia

 

[MalcolmfromMoffat]

After the engine is out remember to change the starter cable for one that suits the new starter location. Likewise the heating duct needs changed and thats easier before the new engine goes in. You might choose to retain the 126 engine mount, that’ll require changing the rear cross member to the version fitted to the 500R. Likewise you might choose to provide a fuel return to the tank such as 126’s had, not essential though as you can return to the feed. You’ll need a 500R heat shield for the exhaust as the earlier 500 one won’t fit. There’s likely stuff I’m not remembering just now but that’s some things to look out for.

 

[JulesFiat500]

After the engine is out remember to change the starter cable for one that suits the new starter location. Likewise the heating duct needs changed and thats easier before the new engine goes in. You might choose to retain the 126 engine mount, that’ll require changing the rear cross member to the version fitted to the 500R. Likewise you might choose to provide a fuel return to the tank such as 126’s had, not essential though as you can return to the feed. You’ll need a 500R heat shield for the exhaust as the earlier 500 one won’t fit. There’s likely stuff I’m not remembering just now but that’s some things to look out for.

Thank you Malcolm …. Again …. I have read copious advice details from all over the internet, but really need someone to help physically/directly …,,,

 

[MalcolmfromMoffat]

I’m just too far away to offer physical help being based in Cumbria, hopefully someone is close by. I haven’t a 500 club magazine to hand so can’t check but what’s the situation with regional coordinators near you? Worth looking for who’s closest to ask advice of.
I haven’t the luxury of a vehicle lift and have had to rely on axle stands and a trolley jack, I’d advise you to lift the rear as high as axle stands allow (having chocked the front wheels) so as to make withdrawal of the engine an easy task. it’s a frustrating fight when the rear isn’t high enough that the engine cowls catch where the rear crossmember attaches.
Is your donor engine a used example? If it is be aware that it might be worth stripping for ALL gaskets and seals, a pain I agree but quite possibly prudent. Don’t ask me how I know!!

 

[JulesFiat500]

I’m just too far away to offer physical help being based in Cumbria, hopefully someone is close by. I haven’t a 500 club magazine to hand so can’t check but what’s the situation with regional coordinators near you? Worth looking for who’s closest to ask advice of.
I haven’t the luxury of a vehicle lift and have had to rely on axle stands and a trolley jack, I’d advise you to lift the rear as high as axle stands allow (having chocked the front wheels) so as to make withdrawal of the engine an easy task. it’s a frustrating fight when the rear isn’t high enough that the engine cowls catch where the rear crossmember attaches.
Is your donor engine a used example? If it is be aware that it might be worth stripping for ALL gaskets and seals, a pain I agree but quite possibly prudent. Don’t ask me how I know!!

Thank you

 

[the hobbler]

Thank you

I have a "well enhanced" 650" engine in the back of my 500. If you would like to drop me a line ( [email protected] ) I will do all I can to help you with the conversion---not difficult, but not quite a "remove one engine/gearbox, drop in the replacement" job. I have a contact in Somerset, so not very far from you, who is VERY experienced with putting '126'engines into the back of '500s'---I will happily pass on his details to you.