Technical sunroof problem

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Technical sunroof problem

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I have a mechanical problem with my sunroof after jacking the car up with the tailgate open to change a wheel. It now makes a horrible noise and wont open. I have been reading other posts but could do with some suggestions on either where to take it to fix it or how to try and fix it myself. My guess is part of the mechanism that tilts the front panel has got bent.
 

bugsymike

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I have a mechanical problem with my sunroof after jacking the car up with the tailgate open to change a wheel. It now makes a horrible noise and wont open. I have been reading other posts but could do with some suggestions on either where to take it to fix it or how to try and fix it myself. My guess is part of the mechanism that tilts the front panel has got bent.
Unless the car fell off the jack and the body flexed I can't see how the sunroof could be effected.
Is there a mechanical way of closing the sunroof in event of a electrical failure, most roofs have that, it may be in the handbook. In which case gently work it and oil it at the same time is what I would do.
 

Davren

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A clicking noise from the roof is usually due to the rack slipping.

There should be a hexagon tool inside the roof switch panel to open or close the roof manually if required.
 

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thx. I have had attempted a repair and made it worse. What I found was as follows
1) The hex key to open it manually only moved the front panel up on one side, the motor then went click click click, I opened up the motor to inspect the gearing and its all fine.
2) Tested motor with it plugged in using sunroof opening and closing knob, all seemed fine.
3) Put it all back together and tried it again, motor not working at all, checked fuse's 45 & 46 neither blown
4) Blind has now also stopped working and is stuck half open

All in all very fed up. I am pretty sure its a mechanical problem with the mechanism, otherwise I dont understand why one side of the 1st panel would lift up enough to get my thumb under the glass panel on the outside of the car, when the other side has hardly tilted up. Anyone help ?
 

bugsymike

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thx. I have had attempted a repair and made it worse. What I found was as follows
1) The hex key to open it manually only moved the front panel up on one side, the motor then went click click click, I opened up the motor to inspect the gearing and its all fine.
2) Tested motor with it plugged in using sunroof opening and closing knob, all seemed fine.
3) Put it all back together and tried it again, motor not working at all, checked fuse's 45 & 46 neither blown
4) Blind has now also stopped working and is stuck half open

All in all very fed up. I am pretty sure its a mechanical problem with the mechanism, otherwise I dont understand why one side of the 1st panel would lift up enough to get my thumb under the glass panel on the outside of the car, when the other side has hardly tilted up. Anyone help ?
I have repaired one on a Citroen Pluriel and it was a nightmare that even the dealers try to avoid. If similar you will end up having to remove several panels etc to gain access. The fact it only moved one side along with the clicking noise seems familiar to me . On the Citroen the motor revolved the cable which was like a long flexible thread going around both sides , so if it is only trying on one side the flexible "worm drive" cable and probably the pieces it engages with to push or pull the roof mechanism are worn.
On the Citroen it operated to slide the roof back, then open the boot and drop the whole thing inside and close the boot again, you could then lift off two heavy bow shaped pieces and store them at home to give smart little open top car, Great if you live in the South of France, but not so good in Britain (unless global warming speeds up) , those cars with the fault used to be offered for sale for a few £100s as it was a horrible job. Yours sounds the same principle but on a smaller scale. I would advise chatting up your local Fiat parts department and ask for a printout of the mechanism and what parts are available at what cost to decide best option!!!
 

Davren

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I am pretty sure its a mechanical problem with the mechanism, otherwise I dont understand why one side of the 1st panel would lift up enough to get my thumb under the glass panel on the outside of the car, when the other side has hardly tilted up. Anyone help ?
The most common fault with the roof mechanism is the spiral rack kinking. I'd guess that that's what's happened to yours.

Unfortunately. Fiat don't supply many parts (including the racks) separately. Available spare parts are shown in the 2 diagrams below.

The roof is made by Webasto. If you can find one of their dealers, they may be able to help.
 

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Thx agin. I cant even get the blind to close now, there's no room to insert the manual winding tool into rear motor unless the headling is removed. I cant understand for the life of me why the blind has stropped working, its not the plug as I have disconnected and reconnected it several times. It wont shut even holding key button down. No mention of a seperate fuse for the blind. Neither fuse 45 or 46 is blown
 

Davren

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I'm fairly sure it's a mechanical problem.

Only other thing I can think of to try is the reset / initiation procedure. As the blind won't close, I don't hold out much hope though.

RESETTING THE CONTROL UNIT MEMORY​

The initialization procedure must be carried out each time the sun roof control units are changed, whilst if there is a drop in the supply whilst he roof is working (failed supply from the battery) the procedure should be carried out up to step 3.

The initialization procedure is illustrated below:
  • 1 turn the rotary selector knob to position '0' (fully closed)
  • 2 keep the rotary selector pressed (for longer than 2 secs): the roof closes
  • 3 wait, keeping the roof completely closed until the blind has clicked shut twice (Hard closing position and then returns to the Soft closing position)
  • 4 release the selector and press it again within 3 secs.
  • 5 keep the selector pressed until the roof (glass and blind) is completely open and then closed again
  • 6 release the selector;
The initialization is completed at this point.

In the case of repairs to or problems with the Body Computer or a break in the battery connections, the motor absorption may be 26+26 A max
The initialization process cannot not take place successfully if one of the following conditions occurs:
  • The rotary selector has not been placed in position '0';
  • The selector has been released during the manoeuvre;
  • The blind operating button has been pressed;
If the process has not been successfully concluded it should be repeated.
.
 

bugsymike

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Hope reset works, but I agree with Davren, it sound mechanical.
If so, all you can do is find out what parts are available from Webasto and what is damaged. It sounds like the drive cables and geardrive. After I had fixed the Citroen I plastered the drive cables and gears with grease. The plastic fittings were very fragile/brittle.
If/when you fix it (y) , I would use the manual key to work it fully in both direction to ensure nothing jams etc. Then follow Davren's reset program so the computer side works correctly, otherwise it could undo all your hard work. Good luck:)
 
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Thx guys but already tried the re-set and it does'nt work. Very sad as I love this car with that sunroof. If I could get my hands on one of the last 2007 Stilo Dynamic 120 M/Jet estates WITH A WORKING SUNROOF i would buy it. Can't put up with the 5 door front bumper though and the later ones have the plastic lower tailgate panel missing. Its still a better designed and engineered car that the Croma is. I wounder which other make & models of cars have the same Webasto sunroof as fitted to the Stilo ? Anyone know ?
 

Davren

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I wounder which other make & models of cars have the same Webasto sunroof as fitted to the Stilo ? Anyone know ?
The sunroof would have been designed to fit the contours of the Stilo roof panel. Extremely unlikely that any other car roof would have the same contours.
.
 

Maxcaddy

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Many, many, many years ago if you jacked up a Alfasud without using the jacking points (i'e put a trolley jack on the suspension) with the doors open you would/could twist the body, and the doors wouldn't close properly afterwards. Alfa knew this and would not honor any guarantees associated with chassis twisting. Roll forward to now and the underneath of a lot of Stilos can be pretty rotten, especially in the area of the rear suspension. Not saying that's yours is, but just a thought. That said, if it is just a seized sunroof then my view is that you make it 'rainproof' and stop.

Your question about other cars with the same Webasto sunroof is strange inasmuch as the Fiat roof is a multi panel glass one, which I doubt is a Webasto. If you have an aftermarket Webasto fitted, then yes they came in a range of sizes, and yes there could be other cars around with the same roof. Visit a few carparks with a tape measure :giggle:.

The proper Fiat Sunroof looked to me to be a disaster waiting to happen when I bought my first in 2006. The test drive in a 1.9 diesel with all the bells and whistles (inc roof) was great, but that roof was always going to go wrong and cost money to put right. My current 2.4 Abarth doesn't have a sunroof, and if I could pick up a folding Webasto one I would be tempted, but as I say the multi panel glass one is to be avoided.
 

bugsymike

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When an apprentice we had a customer with Morris 1000 convertible the owner thought the World of. But if jacked up with the doors open it was impossible to close them, with a good1/4inch of overlap pillar to door!
Also a Rover 216 Convertible that used to creak as the body flexed over uneven roads.
Having said that I think the problem being posted is more to do with the worm drive and what it runs against, either way a right pain in the ar***.
 

Davren

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I've never replaced one. There's several pages of info in eLearn about replacing it.
.
 

Davren

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I'm abroad at the moment so don't have access to eLearn. However, a quick Google search gives this as a possibility:
  1. FIAT
  2. STILO
  3. 1.9 JTD 8V
  4. PROCEDURES
  5. 70 FITTINGS
  6. 7030 SUN ROOF AND HOOD
I found a folder of Fiat Stilo Service bulletins at home a few weeks ago. One of them was for the sunroof. It said that at point 2 of the initialization procedure (post #9 above) keep the rotary selector pressed for longer than 8 seconds instead of 2.
.
 
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annemt

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I had issues with the sunroof on two of my Stilos. Plain and simply, they're badly made; they're weak and prone to breaking. It will have broken a cable guide or cable somewhere inside the roof and the horrible clicking noise will be because the motor is jumping and can't move the roof, that's also the reason why it tries to open on one side.

The reason why the blind isn't working is because the motor ECU thinks that the roof is open, so it won't let you close the blind. To quickly fix and close it, you'll need to unscrew the main motor from the roof, but leave the wires connected, then perform the reset mentioned above. Then the roof will think that it's closed & the blind will work again.

It'll have nothing to do with jacking the car up or having the boot open, it'll just be a coincidence that it's happened at the same time.

It'll need the sunroof replacing to repair it. If you're mechanically minded, then you might be able to repair it, but you WILL need to to remove it from the car first to dismantle it. From what I remember, they're not too hard to remove, they're more fiddly and heavy than difficult. I just replaced the entire sunroof in both instances when I had issues. If you remove the roof lining first, then you'll probably be able to see what the issue is. It'll be on the side that's not moving.

All the sunroofs are the same in all Stilo models, although finding a good used one now might be difficult. I did read once that the same roof was used in a Mercedes too, but I don't recall what model or what year.

Hope that helps.
 
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