General Stop Start nonsense whinge.

[UKRMedic]

Is my clutch control too quick, or is the stop start too slow?

The issue of the engine not starting in time, and then not starting quick enough as I try and pull off in gear (with now the engine off) is starting to grind me.

Yes, SS can be switched off manually, but, I forget etc.

Does anyone know of a remap option to kill SS?

 

[Panda IIs]

Is my clutch control too quick, or is the stop start too slow?

The issue of the engine not starting in time, and then not starting quick enough as I try and pull off in gear (with now the engine off) is starting to grind me.

Yes, SS can be switched off manually, but, I forget etc.

Does anyone know of a remap option to kill SS?

Remarkable that your SS still operates in my experience!

Put an older battery in since SS system seems to be very dependent on measured voltage

 

[vexorg]

The engine should start as soon as the clutch pedal is pressed. Plus I would wait for the engine to be ready, slightly revving, before pulling away. I'd imagine you can beat the stop start in most cars.

You may have trouble getting it mapped out as it's part of the emission band for the cars.

 

[Marcus Daly]

I find the SS works fine and fires up quickly. It's the least objectionable SS car I've driven. I had a VW Golf as a loaner recently and the SS delay made it undriveable in city centre driving. Having said that I've got into the habit of switching it off as soon as I've started up the Panda. Ditto ECO mode!

 

[UKRMedic]

Remarkable that your SS still operates in my experience!

Put an older battery in since SS system seems to be very dependent on measured voltage

Funny enough, it's been operating less and less since fitting an amp eating radio in replacement of the fiat orange screen thing... Heater will be on full blast soon as we get to -40, that should fix it!

 

[UKRMedic]

I find the SS works fine and fires up quickly. It's the least objectionable SS car I've driven. I had a VW Golf as a loaner recently and the SS delay made it undriveable in city centre driving. Having said that I've got into the habit of switching it off as soon as I've started up the Panda. Ditto ECO mode!

Eco is really pants!
Yes, I've also got the auto SS off finger. It's making the panda startup more like a 747 than a car...

 

[Goudrons]

I've only ever come across one stop start system that I actually liked.
That was on a Citroen HDi Airdream Berlingo EGS single clutch auto.

It used a beefed up alternator/generator to collect and store energy in some capacitors and used the same thing to restart the engine.
It was quite clever as it knocked off the engine just before stopping so the last few feet it used the alter/gen to help brake and recover as much energy as it could.
Once the engine was warm the stop start worked every time and the restarts were smooth and instant.
The whole process was pretty much seamless and you didn't really notice it.

My current car has a electronic handbrake and a dual clutch gearbox.
The stop start works well enough when the handbrake isn't set to automatic, it fires up and in gear pretty quickly after you lift your foot off the brake.

Set the handbrake to auto and it will hold the brake on even though you haven't your foot on the brake pedal.
If the stop start is off all you have to do it touch the accelerator and it's off.

With the stop start on it has to restart, select gear and disengage the brake as soon as you touch the accelerator and it very laggy and rather frustrating.

You can restart with the auto brake on without touching the accelerator just by tugging the steering wheel a little, so it's running and ready to go. This obviously helps but you have to start guessing when to do this so it defeats the object really.

 

[UKRMedic]

It used a beefed up alternator/generator to collect and store energy in some capacitors and used the same thing to restart the engine.
It was quite clever as it knocked off the engine just before stopping so the last few feet it used the alter/gen to help brake and recover as much energy as it could.
Once the engine was warm the stop start worked every time and the restarts were smooth and instant.
The whole process was pretty much seamless and you didn't really notice it.

I love the idea of this. It should be the standard.

I'm painfully aware all this stop starting is going to knacker battery and starter motor, as well as the key drum (going through almost stall like procedures).

A more powerful battery may be the solution go a quicker start I guess.

 

[Panda IIs]

I love the idea of this. It should be the standard.

I'm painfully aware all this stop starting is going to knacker battery and starter motor, as well as the key drum (going through almost stall like procedures).

A more powerful battery may be the solution go a quicker start I guess.

Pretty sure that the Panda SS will restart if you pull on the steering wheel(?). It's been so long since it operated that I forget. The only time I found it useful was when teaching my daughter to drive, if she occasionally stalled, accidently, it would restart as soon as the clutch is depressed regardless as to whether the SS initiated the engine off.

Not quite sure of what you mean by damage to the key drum; you shouldn't need to resort to the key (unless I've misunderstood)?

I believe the voltage regulator/detector(?) on the negative battery pole has to be on its game too for SS to be effective.

As you say with all the electrical accessories running in the winter that should deal with it! Is yours a TA or MJ? All my experiences above are with a TA.

 

[Marcus Daly]

I've only ever come across one stop start system that I actually liked.
That was on a Citroen HDi Airdream Berlingo EGS single clutch auto.

The best implementation of this is in Toyota hybrids, where you move off on the traction battery and can be doing 30 before the engine kicks in. Completely seamless, you don’t even notice it happening.

 

[UKRMedic]

Pretty sure that the Panda SS will restart if you pull on the steering wheel(?). It's been so long since it operated that I forget. The only time I found it useful was when teaching my daughter to drive, if she occasionally stalled, accidently, it would restart as soon as the clutch is depressed regardless as to whether the SS initiated the engine off.

Not quite sure of what you mean by damage to the key drum; you shouldn't need to resort to the key (unless I've misunderstood)?

I believe the voltage regulator/detector(?) on the negative battery pole has to be on its game too for SS to be effective.

As you say with all the electrical accessories running in the winter that should deal with it! Is yours a TA or MJ? All my experiences above are with a TA.

Pull on the wheel?

By key drum damage, when the car doesn't start quick enough as I release the clutch and engage gear it creates a stall scenario, meaning I have the frantic key turn to restart - although I don't doubt it's not stalling, just not starting in gear - 30 yrs of driving can't be unlearned that quickly for me.

I should of course wait for the engine to start. Not possible in my environment.

Mine is a 4x4 Multijet.

I have found a menu in my new radio that may be able to permanently disable the SS. It's menu system seems to be able to interact with things not meant to be interacted with on the panda. For example - my lights flash when I lock the car.

 

[Panda IIs]

Pull on the wheel?

Turn the steering wheel - electric system that (I think I recall) triggers start

By key drum damage, when the car doesn't start quick enough as I release the clutch and engage gear it creates a stall scenario, meaning I have the frantic key turn to restart - although I don't doubt it's not stalling, just not starting in gear - 30 yrs of driving can't be unlearned that quickly for me.

Mmm, sounds like there's some additional hysteresis in the system; maybe the TA is just that little more agile and built with SS as part of the design requirement??

I should of course wait for the engine to start. Not possible in my environment.

Sounds like you DO need to permanently override, from your comment I assume you made it to UA? How was the journey?

Mine is a 4x4 Multijet.

I have found a menu in my new radio that may be able to permanently disable the SS. It's menu system seems to be able to interact with things not meant to be interacted with on the panda. For example - my lights flash when I lock the car.

Mmm, you mean headlights rather than just the indicators?

 

[Goudrons]

The Toyota hybrid is now yesterday. I've been a fan in the past, but it is the past.

Sure it's robust and pretty efficient, but there's no getting around the fact that it's CVT or Constantly Very Tiresome gearbox is it's drawback.
If you have a foot and that foot touches the acclerator, lord they make a fuss!

My local dealer has been pushing me to try the new Renault Clio E Tech hybrid and leant me one for the weekend a few weeks back.
It's head and shoulders above the Toyota system.

The gearbox is a dog box with a large electric motor built in that is powered via a large battery, miles more positive than the CVT and is pretty silky.

The stopping and regeneration is handled by a smaller motor/generator from a smaller battery so the engine kicks in and out seamlessly without any fuss, so much so it's hard to notice when it doing it.

It's about as close as you can get to it all been totally seamless without any hestitation, fuss or step in the drive to tell you something is going on between the power sources.
You really do float around town and it'll even float on electric on and off on a steady cruise at speed.

I was fairly disgruntled when I handed it back, in fact I was down the back of the sofa looking for any loose change that evening.
Big bonus is I can buy one in the same trim and colour as my current Clio.

 

[UKRMedic]

Turn the steering wheel - electric system that (I think I recall) triggers start

Mmm, sounds like there's some additional hysteresis in the system; maybe the TA is just that little more agile and built with SS as part of the design requirement??

Sounds like you DO need to permanently override, from your comment I assume you made it to UA? How was the journey?

Mmm, you mean headlights rather than just the indicators

Turn the steering wheel - electric system that (I think I recall) triggers start

Mmm, sounds like there's some additional hysteresis in the system; maybe the TA is just that little more agile and built with SS as part of the design requirement??

Sounds like you DO need to permanently override, from your comment I assume you made it to UA? How was the journey?

Mmm, you mean headlights rather than just the indicators?

I see, I'll try moving the wheel - but maybe the system reads a drop in power so starts the engine to generate?

Yes. Made it over here. Very active. Panda is doing well.

Yes, headlights. The new radio I have has a whole load it options!

 

[UKRMedic]

The Toyota hybrid is now yesterday. I've been a fan in the past, but it is the past.

Sure it's robust and pretty efficient, but there's no getting around the fact that it's CVT or Constantly Very Tiresome gearbox is it's drawback.
If you have a foot and that foot touches the acclerator, lord they make a fuss!

My local dealer has been pushing me to try the new Renault Clio E Tech hybrid and leant me one for the weekend a few weeks back.
It's head and shoulders above the Toyota system.

The gearbox is a dog box with a large electric motor built in that is powered via a large battery, miles more positive than the CVT and is pretty silky.

The stopping and regeneration is handled by a smaller motor/generator from a smaller battery so the engine kicks in and out seamlessly without any fuss, so much so it's hard to notice when it doing it.

It's about as close as you can get to it all been totally seamless without any hestitation, fuss or step in the drive to tell you something is going on between the power sources.
You really do float around town and it'll even float on electric on and off on a steady cruise at speed.

I was fairly disgruntled when I handed it back, in fact I was down the back of the sofa looking for any loose change that evening.
Big bonus is I can buy one in the same trim and colour as my current Clio.

Hybrid is something that once attracted me - and Toyota as well!

I'm turning my thoughts back to tanks. Indestructible gas guzzlers. Can't go wrong!