General Still wondering ….

[Highland jamck]

…Where to aim with the recently acquired 500 that starts and runs reliably, mainly. I’ve parked the electrical issue for now as easily bypassed. On occasional short trips out, though, it runs fine mostly, but then coughs, or rather baulks, heavily, like there’s an intermittent fuel issue. Apart from once I’ve got home, but I fear that’s mainly because I’m going such short distances and I’m playing Russian roulette. Peter T wonders if ignition may be the problem and it’s something I’ll try to check, but I’m also wondering if water in the fuel is possible - anyone able to comment? I should probably have ditched the fuel in the tank, and might do tomorrow, as I have little idea how long most of it was there. Thanks for any consideration

 

[bugsymike]

…Where to aim with the recently acquired 500 that starts and runs reliably, mainly. I’ve parked the electrical issue for now as easily bypassed. On occasional short trips out, though, it runs fine mostly, but then coughs, or rather baulks, heavily, like there’s an intermittent fuel issue. Apart from once I’ve got home, but I fear that’s mainly because I’m going such short distances and I’m playing Russian roulette. Peter T wonders if ignition may be the problem and it’s something I’ll try to check, but I’m also wondering if water in the fuel is possible - anyone able to comment? I should probably have ditched the fuel in the tank, and might do tomorrow, as I have little idea how long most of it was there. Thanks for any consideration

Always worth checking in an old fuel tank, any chance you can syphon from the bottom of tank where water collects and test it?

 

[Highland jamck]

Yes, I’m on the trail of a suitably patented siphon pipe, so not much to lose. If the fuel is ok it can go in the lawnmower

 

[bugsymike]

Yes, I’m on the trail of a suitably patented siphon pipe, so not much to lose. If the fuel is ok it can go in the lawnmower

I ran an old Fiat Uno on the five star petrol after fitting a diesel in a boat, the original galvanised tank was rusty and full of water as well , but after I filtered it that Uno went better than it had for years on current unleaded and that petrol had been sitting since before 1982! Modern stuff wouldn't do that.

 

[Highland jamck]

So, if I managed to empty the tank properly the fuel is not the problem. I guess as you suggested @peterthompson I had better try to get to grips with ignition…. So much to learn

 

[Highland jamck]

Probably should have said @fiat500 - not versed in forum talk yet. So the car goes about 4 minutes (maybe that’s until fully hot?) then coughs and stops a few coughs later. Today, started again after a few minutes but only ran for a few seconds. If you or anyone sees, is it the points gap I start with?

 

[fiat500]

Probably should have said @fiat500 - not versed in forum talk yet. So the car goes about 4 minutes (maybe that’s until fully hot?) then coughs and stops a few coughs later. Today, started again after a few minutes but only ran for a few seconds. If you or anyone sees, is it the points gap I start with?

If you want me to talk you though the process of adjusting the points and setting up the timing, I should be available on Tuesday and Wednesday this week.
I was really surprised that my own, similar issue came down to a spark plug. I even learned that you can verify this with the multimeter. The problem is that there is even a knack to removing and replacing the spark plugs...one false move and they're a the bottom of the cowling.

 

[Highland jamck]

Hi Peter, if you don’t mind that’d be great, can be available when convenient. I can pick stuff up when I see or get talked through it, but some of it in the manual just doesn’t quite make sense. I now have my very own unrusted feeler gauges!

 

[Highland jamck]

Incidentally, I did notice that one of the connections to the coil looks frayed, might be relevant??

 

[bugsymike]

Probably should have said @fiat500 - not versed in forum talk yet. So the car goes about 4 minutes (maybe that’s until fully hot?) then coughs and stops a few coughs later. Today, started again after a few minutes but only ran for a few seconds. If you or anyone sees, is it the points gap I start with?

If you are checking the contact points, have a good look at the mating surfaces, I have often found them to be "blue and pitted" this can be an indication of a failing condensor. This can cause a car to misfire as the engine warms up in some circumstances. Another problem people new to older cars may not be familiar with is when working on them if ignition is left on it can burn the points and overheat the ignition coil, something electronic ignition cars don't have a problem with.

 

[fiat500]

Hi Peter, if you don’t mind that’d be great, can be available when convenient. I can pick stuff up when I see or get talked through it, but some of it in the manual just doesn’t quite make sense. I now have my very own unrusted feeler gauges!

I'll Whatsapp you when. Bad connections won't help. @bugsymike is talking sense. It's easier to show than to describe. Once you get the principles it's easy. The things that can be done relatively quickly and simply are setting the valve clearances, the points gap, the timing, nd the fuel mixture; I have the very simple technology needed to do that.

 

[Highland jamck]

Lots of sense and support on this forum, I am very grateful. Whilst not that aware, I am at least not guilty of leaving the ignition on willy nilly…

 

[Highland jamck]

Just for the record really, the beast stubbornly refused to start on Sunday even when fully cold. This morning (Tue) it had to be turned over with choke for a while, but then started and ran fine in the garage. Having started once, it restarts instantly, but I’ll bet if I went anywhere it would be a repeat of the other day ..

 

[bugsymike]

Just for the record really, the beast stubbornly refused to start on Sunday even when fully cold. This morning (Tue) it had to be turned over with choke for a while, but then started and ran fine in the garage. Having started once, it restarts instantly, but I’ll bet if I went anywhere it would be a repeat of the other day ..

Any clues?
Smell of petrol like too rich or no spark to fire the petrol?
Can someone turn engine whilst you check for a good spark check ?

 

[Highland jamck]

If it gets to it (a repeat of the other day, cough and stall after a few minutes’ driving) I will try to ensure there’s someone around, partly to help push... In the meantime, spark and fuel delivery today must be as good as gold. Having got it started, any restart is really perfect - almost before the lever is pulled!

 

[fiat500]

I attempted to root out the problem with this car, and messed up,by making things worse (for now).

My idea was, to start by getting the points gap right, move on to the static timing, and then to fine tune the timing with my strobe.
I fell at the first hurdle by getting all the timing marks measured correctly, but not necessarily in the right place; ie ATDC, not BTDC!!! There then followed a long struggle with distributor in and out trying to get the points opening just right. Other mishaps didn't help, such as carefully chopping the LT lead in half whilst removing a wrongly place cable tie, and attempting to re-time the engine when it wasn't even on the mark. The LT lead did need replacing in any case, and the engine did fire and run reasonably well. It was after I did the thing that I should have done first, which was to clean the contact surfaces of the points, that the engine then refused to fire at all. A new condenser didn't help either. We are hoping this is just the warmed up engine doing what it likes to do.

I was avoiding the oily job of setting the valve clearances because the gasket might need replacing and I didn't have one with me, but that is next on the list and seems another likely cause of this annoying and elusive problem.

One things that I had forgotten on the 499 engine is the fiddly nut and adjustment for movement of the distributor; something that is much simpler on the later engines.

John seems very tolerant of my absentmindedness, and I can assure him that we will fix this properly.

 

[Highland jamck]

Oh I’m more than tolerant - learning quite a bit and I’d be struggling for sure without the practical support and the wisdom of the forum. More asking around been going on as well, and it’s hard not to have your head turned by the seductively named “competition condenser”. I can see I’ll have one of those in stock by the end of the year, need it or not

 

[bugsymike]

Oh I’m more than tolerant - learning quite a bit and I’d be struggling for sure without the practical support and the wisdom of the forum. More asking around been going on as well, and it’s hard not to have your head turned by the seductively named “competition condenser”. I can see I’ll have one of those in stock by the end of the year, need it or not

My thoughts re "competition condenser” is they were unnecessary when the car was new and everyone driving petrol cars could simply get a good quality standard replacement condensor made by Lucas , Ducelier, MotoMarelli, Bosch etc. That worked perfectly well for many thousands of mile.
It was when all the lower quality parts started to flood the market that problems arose, around 1975 we started to see companies like Intermotor join the market and soon it was all the motor factors supplied, but quality in those days was rubbish, you often found misaligned points, condensors with the spot welded mounting breaking away from new, some even duff electrically straight out of the box, so very poor quality control. I even recall a box of 50 2.2 watt "pea " bulbs that only ten worked , they came from Ring, both those companies have improved drastically over the years, but by hell they needed too!
The problem is people buy on price not quality and when parts are needed for older vehicles sometimes there are few options on what are supplied to you.

 

[Highland jamck]

OK, maybe I’m getting carried away! At the moment I’m buying any bits & pieces from Ricambi assuming this means a reasonable chance they are correct and of decent quality, but (and because, to be fair) I have much to learn…

 

[Highland jamck]

Definite progress much thanks to Peter @fiat500 … the red car has been on two small outings today and got all the way back both times without complaining. Seems like detailed improvements to spark distribution and adjusted valve clearances has made a real difference, and I’m learning some of it along the way .

What with the couple of electrical issues being parked or bypassed for now, I’m building up confidence. Who knows where it will end …. Nairn, maybe, still some way off ready for the NC500!