Technical Sticky clutch pedal

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Technical Sticky clutch pedal

brightie1

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Hi all, relates to 2007 Panda 1.1 Active
The clutch pedal on the Panda has started to become very notchy when coming up. Sometimes it sticks down fully momentarily. Not like when the slave cylinder expired though. The master and slave cylinders have been replaced in the last 5,000 miles and have been working well. No loss of clutch fluid.
I squirted a load of PTFE oil spray around the pedals, spring, piston etc and a squeak that was present has gone. With the engine off the pedal works beautifully and smoothly. But with the engine running it becomes notchy. The odd thing is that it went from being very notchy to perfectly smooth, even with the engine running, after a 30 mile hard drive. I was late for an appointment (my Mitsubishi Eclipse Cross broke down on me) so gave the Panda plenty of revs.
Now a couple of weeks later the notchiness is coming back.
Im thinking that it must be something at the slave cylinder/gearbox end to change after the hard driving? Any thoughts please?. Lubricating the slave cylinder is maybe a good place to start? But as I said, its pretty new and would the hard driving improve it? And would it be smooth without the engine running?
Thanks as always.

Just to add, I learned a couple of lessons which may be helpful to others when changing the rusted away exhaust to gearbox clamp.
I don't have a large bench vice so pondered on how to get the clamp far enough apart to go over the exhaust. I ended up getting something described as a "HiPicco M8x200mm Fully Threaded Rod and stud" off Amazon and used it to wind the clamp open and then used it again to wind the clamp shut over the exhaust. Worked well.
My other learning point was that the slot in the new clamp needed elongating significantly towards the middle of the clamp. Maybe half its existing length again. Having read previous posts about fitting one I had elongated it before fitting it but not nearly enough. No fun at all elongating it further whilst lying under the car.

 
Thanks, Ive done 3 on the car already. Ive checked and the one on there is less than 2 years old and around 3,000 miles done.
I'll have a good look and see if it looks to be faulty in some way though.
And would having the engine running cause the jerkiness when its perfectly smooth with the engine off? Would the slave cylinder not carry out its function the same way with engine on or off?
 
Thanks Dave but the master cylinder must be 18 months old at most.
I'll have a look at the slave cylinder and grease it up and go from there.
The bit that I can't get my head around is why the pedal is silky smooth when the engine is off but not whilst its running.
 
And would having the engine running cause the jerkiness when its perfectly smooth with the engine off? Would the slave cylinder not carry out its function the same way with engine on or off?
You're right - engine running should have no effect on clutch hydraulics

Sticky slave cylinder often seems to get worse when hot, especially sitting in traffic on a hot day (from my own experience and a number of reports on here).

Surprised it's happened again so soon after new master and slave.

I think koalar's right, start with silicone grease inside the rubber boot on the slave to see if there's any improvement.
 
Thanks, Ive done 3 on the car already. Ive checked and the one on there is less than 2 years old and around 3,000 miles done.
I'll have a good look and see if it looks to be faulty in some way though.
And would having the engine running cause the jerkiness when its perfectly smooth with the engine off? Would the slave cylinder not carry out its function the same way with engine on or off?
should do
 
Thanks guys.

Another thought. Think I remember somebody saying that even though the coupling wasn't leaking on their car they suspected that it was causing poor performance from the slave cylinder. They replaced the coupling and things improved.

Half of the coupling on my Panda is original so nearly 19 years old and the other half is about 8 years old so I'm thinking of doing that as well as greasing up the slave cylinder under the rubber. It isn't leaking but is it worth doing anyway and does anybody have experience of using the Jerbor kit?

 
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Yes the coupling can cause wierd things I think @irc had one but I can't remember the symptoms, from memory it was weeping slightly allowing air in

Lots of things it could be

Input shaft spines
Fork bushes
Bent fork
Input bearing
Contamination
Coupling
Slave

And so on

But a long list of could be isn't that helpful unless you change one and you are lucky

Try and eliminate the most most likely first

1500 per year is not a lot of use, even if it's used every day it's what 4 miles,

Did it improve for a short time after swapping the slaves in the past

Is there any other symptoms,, increased noise or
Jerky take off for example
 
Thanks Koalar, it was fine until about the last 3 months. Reckon I might change that coupling as one of the early attempts at a fix and grease up the slave cylinder.
No other issues with the clutch or gearbox. My fear is that it's in the gearbox though.
If so then with the rear beam needing doing soon it's probably going to be uneconomical to do. Sad if it dies because it was my late wife's car and we have had it for the last 16 years.
At 66yo my body objects to lying on the floor under a car for too long though.
 
Do the simple first

Pop the rubber weather seal off and grease inside and work in

Should be silicone really, most grease will be effected by either the water from the outside or the hydraulic fluid from the inside, although for a quick test it's not so important

There should be plenty of play in the pivot bearing and they should be dry

However I have seen people greasing them when doing a clutch change

The grease attracts the clutch dust and makes a stiff paste, a small amount thin oil here should work it's way down, there's no easy access to the other pivot bush

Screenshot_20251001-114610.png



Snapped weld on the clutch pedal is not uncommon, it will wiggle badly from side to side, although I have not seen it cause these symptoms
 
Look down this inspection hole

Screenshot_20251001-121127.png


Is the clutch pressure plate dry with brown with clutch dust

Or wet and black

engine off, wipe yours finger across the inside does it come back dry or oily, dry the input bearing is probably okay, not 100% reliable but fairly good indication
 
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Thanks Koalar, really grateful for your advice.
Looked in the inspection cover and its dry in there, although I would say that the dust is more black than brown. Had a look with an inspection camera too and no sign of wetness.
Did the greasing of the slave piston under the rubber and lubricated the pivot bearing. All looked fine. But there is something squeaking under the bonnet when the clutch is being depressed. Being on my own its very hard to suss out whether its the slave or master cylinder.
I'll run it around for a few days now and see whether its improved or whether the deterioration continues.
If it continues to worsen I'll assume that the squeak is the slave and fit yet another slave cylinder and replace the coupling with one designed for that purpose (not a collection of plumbing bits). I'll also flush all the fluid through, although it is only 2 years old.
I was never particularly happy with the current slave. It was at a time when there was a shortage and somebody posted saying that one on Amazon fitted and was cheap, so I got that one even though Amazon reckoned it wouldn't fit. It seemed to fit and operate ok but the gearchange was never quite as smooth. It was bled repeatedly. Firstly with a vacuum kit off Amazon, which leaked and was rubbish, then with an Eze bleed, which I still wasn't sure was 100% right, so finally with the Eze bleed in a pot of clutch fluid as well.
 
Your phones microphone is pretty good at locating noise when your on your own

Place it somewhere and take a video
Move it and take a second video

The loudest one will be nearest the source of the noise

No sign of wetness is a good sign the input bearing is still okay, the vast majority weep before any other symptoms
 
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I was never particularly happy with the current slave. It was at a time when there was a shortage and somebody posted saying that one on Amazon fitted and was cheap, so I got that one even though Amazon reckoned it wouldn't fit
Yes I remember the times when the lead time for a LUK slave was seval months and then all other alternative makes dried up, as soon as one came in stock online it was sold in seconds/minutes


The later 1.2 pandas and 1.2 500 share the same same slave cylinder part number

The 1.1/1.2 169 panda has a different part number

Stroke and bore are the same according to online data, I have no idea if there is any actual difference between them or if it's just the part number change

The later 500 have been fitted, this is the first that's has possibly failed, sample size of one, and all that so could be a coincidence
 
Half of the coupling on my Panda is original so nearly 19 years old and the other half is about 8 years old so I'm thinking of doing that as well as greasing up the slave cylinder under the rubber. It isn't leaking but is it worth doing anyway and does anybody have experience of using the Jerbor kit?
I've seen some users replace the coupling in the 500 section (can't remember who and I can't find the threads now).

It's almost certainly what I'll do when mine needs replacing.

I've also seen some replace the plastic master and slave cylinders with metal versions, possibly from Ford Ka?
 
I got lucky with my first clutch master cylinder - OEM type came prefilled with pipe and QD coupling. However the old coupling did not do QD. The stainless springs had corroded the aluminium body and seized it solid. I managed to get going with a bodge and then fitted a replacement coupling.
You can get a metal union with support sleeves (looks solid) or something like this -

Next time, I just got a new master cylinder. The cast version (about £60) is much nicer than the fabricated steel that Fiat use. Slave cylinders can be found for around £30. Shop 4 Parts are usually very good. I can't find clutch hydraulics on their website so give them a call.
 
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Thanks guys.

Another thought. Think I remember somebody saying that even though the coupling wasn't leaking on their car they suspected that it was causing poor performance from the slave cylinder. They replaced the coupling and things improved.

Half of the coupling on my Panda is original so nearly 19 years old and the other half is about 8 years old so I'm thinking of doing that as well as greasing up the slave cylinder under the rubber. It isn't leaking but is it worth doing anyway and does anybody have experience of using the Jerbor kit?

Good idea but cut the thing out as the pipes will probably be corroded togther and into the plastic pipes too. Many cheap and good connector options on ebay.
 
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Thanks all. Have ordered another slave cylinder. Although it looks ok, Ive a feeling that its corroded inside. Its an aluminium bodied one. The reason that I think it may be corroded, even though its only 2 years old, is that I recently noticed that my brake fluid lid has a crack in it so I was probably putting fluid in 2 years ago that had already absorbed water. The crack may have occurred after last use I suppose.
New fluid purchased so I'll do the coupling and another slave cylinder. And hope that the fluid hasn't knackered the master cylinder.
Got a quote for a new clutch, in case its that. £542. And if the oil seal needs doing an additional £120 on top of that. The seal itself is £12. Thats "Mr Clutch" prices.
 
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