some blokes rant

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some blokes rant

Spirito

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Re: Punto Power Steering

My wife's Punto (X-reg), is currently in at a dealer 90 miles away in Manchester, where it broke down on Sunday.

She has been presented with a cost in the region of £800 to fix her steering which went wrong on her on the way home to North Wales.

Here we are again! Modern cars, upto date technology, supposedly top notch design. The steering fails at 68,000 miles less than 5 years old. What are these spotty faced graduates doing, they sit up these computer screens competing with each other to "design" the most expensive parts they can - tossers!

The part supply is modular, i.e. you can't replace the offending part, you have to replace everything else that's attached to it as well! You wouldn't mind if this reduced the cost to you the customer but it doesn't. The car costs relatively cheap at new purchase - they get the money back later!

Bastards - they ought to rot in hell!

Remember the old days, when cars were cars? The Morris Minor, the MGBs, the Triumphs! They were built to last and if anything did go wrong, they didn't cost the earth to fix - even if you had to take it in to a garage.

Reliability has been built out of modern cars, one would think that would reduce the cost to the customer, but instead of being cheap to fix they are ridiculously expensive.

This fault is a very dangerous one, you could argue that it should not have happened, the car is a potential death trap when something like this fails. The car has been serviced regularly and is in otherwise very good condition. If this is down to wear and tear then surely there should have been some sort of warning. You knew on the old cars when something was amiss days and weeks before failure, all you get now is a light coming on the dashboard when it actually packs up!

We have to make a decision as to whether it is worthwhile fixing. I would prefer her to trade in and get something else, something reliable, something you can have faith in - certainly not a Fiat!

The problem now is what do we do now when our car is stuck in a Fiat dealer - he ain't going to want to sell us anything other than a Fiat.

We would have preferred to go local, even if it was a Fiat dealer, as long as it was closer to home, but apparently the Fiat dealers do not network unlike Ford, Vauxhall or Peugot, so we have to trek all over to bloody Manchester and take what ever they have with their inflated city prices.

We definitely do not want another Fiat!
 
Re: Punto Power Steering

Spirito said:
Here we are again! Modern cars, upto date technology, supposedly top notch design. The steering fails at 68,000 miles less than 5 years old. What are these spotty faced graduates doing, they sit up these computer screens competing with each other to "design" the most expensive parts they can - tossers!

Modern engineering practice is to design parts and assemblies that fail ideally at or above a predetermined factor of safety, whilst minimising cost of production by making it easy to manufacture and as lean on material as possible.

Spirito said:
The part supply is modular, i.e. you can't replace the offending part, you have to replace everything else that's attached to it as well! You wouldn't mind if this reduced the cost to you the customer but it doesn't. The car costs relatively cheap at new purchase - they get the money back later!

Common sting Im afraid, its often just as car manufacturers buy parts in and thats howe they get them...

Spirito said:
Remember the old days, when cars were cars? The Morris Minor, the MGBs, the Triumphs! They were built to last and if anything did go wrong, they didn't cost the earth to fix - even if you had to take it in to a garage.

Cars still are cars, that much is still true.
I dont know about car lifetimes previously, but I get the impression it wasnt much longer than current (150k miles / 10 years of thereabouts). Its the electronics that complicate issues but where would the automotiove industry be if it still relied on carbs'!?

I can recommend against Peugeot atm, they are having lots of trouble with their new cars....stuff failing everywhere Im told...
 
Re: Punto Power Steering

Spirito said:
Remember the old days, when cars were cars? The Morris Minor, the MGBs, the Triumphs! They were built to last and if anything did go wrong, they didn't cost the earth to fix - even if you had to take it in to a garage.
No I don't remember, but one of the guys around where I work is an old mech doing a spot of plant maintenance to bolster his pension, he started work as a mech at 16 in the early/mid 50s retired at in the late 90s as a forecourt manager. As he says; Modern cars break just as often as they used to. They go wrong differently these days, just the way they break is different, they are more complicated beasts.

From that guy I've heard stories about the cars. Drive shafts snapping regularly on this car, that car having replacement gear boxes, another car always havin' problems with engine ceasing up in cold weather, etc.
 
Oh no, read the 1st couple of lines and thought here we go again!

Why not get down a scrappy buy the parts for £30 and wield a spanner yourself. Afterall cars of today aren't that much different to days of old apart from their modular and easier to fix with the added bonus that they don't rust to buggery and don't come with a full toolkit to repair the car every 1000 miles when it breakdowns.

Your power steering has probably been buggered from poor driving, i.e. turning the wheel when stationary which off course you couldn't do on a Morris Minor unless you biceps were huge.

I've had an idea if you think it's all so easy to make a realiable car, go join Fiat (or enter preferred make here) and show them how to make a real car that never breaks down and no mechnical parts ever fail even after driving for the equivilent of 3 times round the world, oh and why not show Boeing how its done too, I'm sure they'd love to know this art of 100% reliability.

Good luck with your Ford, Vauxhall or whatever you chose to buy, they never go wrong. (y)
 
Re: Punto Power Steering

Spirito said:
Modern cars, upto date technology, supposedly top notch design. The steering fails at 68,000 miles less than 5 years old. What are these spotty faced graduates doing, they sit up these computer screens competing with each other to "design" the most expensive parts they can - tossers!

Actually its to do with increasing safety levels of modern cars security/driving & safety....oh & of course strict emission laws!



p.s.if you buy secondhand it still has (should be!) to be calibrated by a dealer using examiner :devil:
 
Re: Punto Power Steering

Why register on a Fiat website just to moan about a car?? :confused:
If it is not for you then just go buy something else...I am sure you will get the same reliabilty with another marque as with Fiat....just with higher bills...
 
Yep get that with every car could just of easily happened on a Skoda, VW, Ford or any other manufacturer.

And yeah Mercedes are absolute tosh nowadays. My last MD had one for 3 years and there was not one moment in that whole time he owned it where everything worked!. He was hella glad it was a lease car or the bills would be in excess of £3000!.
 
the steering failure is very common on mk2 puntos.

fiats have "niggling faults" with their electrics, they have had for a very long time, and it is very well publicised. if you buy one and have electrical problems you should have been expecting it, in the same way you buy a lottery ticket and expect to win nothing. if it turns out to be a trouble free purchase you should consider yourself very lucky, almost as lucky as winning the lottery. fiats are cheap because they are made to be cheap, not reliable. if they were reliable they would cost more, just like other reliable cars. next time buy a nissan and you wont have this problem :)

your main concern now should be the dealer not the car, fiat dealers are worse than the cars, and a lot more expensive. £800 is more than the usual price for a steering failure repair. ring a few other dealers to get quotes, then tell the dealer who has the car that you will be picking it up and taking it to another dealer who quoted £X, hopefully they will match the quote, but if they dont you can drive the car as long as you have a bit of muscle in your arms. i'd take it somewhere cheaper, i've heard of people paying less than £500 for the same repair at other dealers.
 
a week after i picked my punto up, it had done 4k miles, the steering rack cracked, and rear suspension gave way!! (no, im not HUGE!)

lucky it was under warranty and i got compensation too :D lol

Hope you get car sorted, cant be assed to read all that posts!!
 
Remember the old days, when cars were cars? The Morris Minor, the MGBs, the Triumphs! They were built to last and if anything did go wrong, they didn't cost the earth to fix - even if you had to take it in to a garage.

Yep. I had a Triumph Herald 13/60 table top convertable....

IIRC it had 40k on the clock (she was getting on in years)But it was only 40k and I had to do a complete engine rebuild. The body was rusty as f*** and needed welding or the floor pan would have been like fred flinstones car. Then just slapped loads of filler and fiberglass in the rest ready for spraying.

I can see what you are saying...nuts and bolts and all that. But passenger safety?...what safety?

I would prefer a rust free, safer car with the odd glitch than nuts and bolts now.
So, No I wouldn't swap my fiat for a triumph for quids :)
 
as jug said, if you looked about a bit and did some research before buying (ANYCAR!!!!) it then you would have kNOWN that this is a VERY common failure, and you could have been saving the £££'s before hand, or if it bothered you that it may fail change the car before it happens (as it will at some point or another).


Fiats ARE NOT unreliable cars, they just have a few niggles (as do EVERY OTHER CAR ON THE ROAD) that the dealer charges extortionate amounts for (as they know it will go wrong, so can rely on it to bring £££ into the business).

MOST modern cars have niggling - bad electrical problems nowadays (the fault with your steering column is a sensor that is built into it,the part maybe costs £8 on its own, but unfortunatly they are stuck in there pretty much permantly from what i have read). I think mercedes/audi/peugeot have the worst electrical problems (fiat does well in comparison). citroen/peugot/renault have amoung the worst engine related problems (water pumps and oil pumps seizing, but thats a lot down to the typical owners and how they are driven).
and vaux corsa's:yuck: don't even get me started. They also have a steering column issue (its a dual speed job as well AFAIK), and all the engines sound like hairdriers, when they are about to die, all you can hear is a hair drier noise and nothing else.


I think slating all fiats because of one fault, that is WIDELY known about (and any garage you bought it from should have made you aware) is very childish.

No the steering failure light does not signify immenant death. the steering ecu dies and the steering becomes heavier and city button won't work.
You can still safely drive the car around, just be aware that it is heavier than norm.

Yes you can fit a scrappy part. BUt you will still have to pay the alignment and fitting fee, even if the part you have found is also faulty (likely). i think the part is around £320-350 inc vat, the rest will be labour and bllsht money.

Fiat dealers are well reputed to be the most expensive around.


E.G. 6/7year old Fiat Punto 1.2. full service (not inc any major parts thoug) at a fiat dealership = £214 we were quoted:eek:
2yr old Audi A6 avant w quattro (£34k car!) full service (not inc any major parts) at an audi garage (private network, not audiUK, they ARE TOSSERS!!) = £179.99.

Still think buying a small cheap car is actually cheaper to run than a huge executive estate car:cool:


If you want a near totally free SLAB of car that you can pound every day and it won't even hinder it, something that is built like the proverbial brick shthouse. Buy a late 90's Audi A8. they go for anything upwards of £3500 (with mint 3.7 v8 models with loads of kit going for £5000), then thats what I'd buy. Yes they are expensive on fuel, and insurance and tax. BUt the savings you make thru it not devaluing anymore (I bet they would offer you about £7-800 for your car with the steering broken LOL) would far out weigh teh costs. ANd you'd be sound in the knowledge you are buying ONE OF THE BEST cars on the road PERIOD.:slayer:


Althogh the same DOES NOT go for mercedes.
We were so taken with the audi when we got it new that we bought a W reg yr2000 Merc E320CDi estate. It was 2.5yrs old from a merc dealer, with their 'seal of excellence' or whatever bullcrp it was.

car was A LOT of money, and mint except for blistering on the rear NS wing.
When it was 3 and something years old it had an MOT. AND IT FAILED:eek: :mad:
That rust wasn't just surface rust, the pick up points for the rear axle were close to coming away, hence a fail.
Took us weeks of arguing with dealership (1yr warrenty), and eventually we got the money back less the devaluing over the period (you COULD buy a WHOLE audi A8 for the amount we lost in 10months:cry: ).



Well thats MY RANT OVER.
And its totally bigger than yours:devil:
 
how about a car that is made with modern manufacturing methods, but without adding modern technology to it, and using retro styling. thats what i want, i've been saying it for years.

if they still made a lot of the cars from the 80's i'd buy them instead of modern crap. i want a series 1 rs turbo made using 2006 methods and materials. that would be a perfect car.

we are quickly heading to the day when windows will run your car and whenever windows crahses so does your car. full drive by wire is going to be the big turning point, when technology decides when you turn, brake and accelerate. thats a scary though. power steering failure will have a whole new meaning for the drive by wire generation of cars. and imagine what fiats will be like by the time that happens, you'll turn left and it'll accelerate, you brake and it turns right.
 
faster4_tec said:
I think mercedes/audi/peugeot have the worst electrical problems (fiat does well in comparison).
Just reminded me of a friend who sold their Pug 306 recently, it'd only start with the hand brake off and one of the front doors open or by a bump start. He spend about 400£ trying to track down the fault then got a new car.

faster4_tec said:
E.G. 6/7year old Fiat Punto 1.2. full service (not inc any major parts thoug) at a fiat dealership = £214 we were quoted:eek:
2yr old Audi A6 avant w quattro (£34k car!) full service (not inc any major parts) at an audi garage (private network, not audiUK, they ARE TOSSERS!!) = £179.99.
Also if you're not going to compare like for like you're not doing a proper comparison, the local Fiat/Alfa specialist around here does a full service for about 135£ on a Mk1 Punto & that was about 1/2 the price of the local main dealer (also they haven't yet damaged my car doing a routine inspection/repair of a car).
 
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I know if you can find a private alfa + fiat specialist then for gods sake use them.


And no its not a like for like comparison, because I am trying to point out that having a small cheap car does not mean small and cheap running costs.
 
How much does you Fiat garage charge per hour.........(what evidence is there that Fiat are the most expensive??)

The top 10 most expensive cars to get fixed, on average per hour

* BMW £158.63
* AUDI £146.88
* LAND ROVER £129.95
* JEEP CHRYSLER £129.35
* MERCEDES £123.38
* JAGUAR £116.33
* PORSCHE £116.33
* RENAULT £116.33
* LEXUS £115.15
* SAAB £111.63
* VOLKSWAGEN £111.60
* VOLVO £111.63

My dealer charges £40 p/hr,and as for servicing 12K Punto service for £105 & offers a budget service (oil/air/plugs/brake check with wheels off/gearbox oil /suspension/steering etc etc) for £90......& that includes a MOT!
Shop around! & in realistic terms you pay what £60 to get you heating boiler serviced(worth around £500) yet if you triple that to say £180 for a car service (worth £8-11,000) it doesn't seem so bad now does it?





How about...........

Number of repair claims per 100 cars by manufacturer:

1. Honda 9.9
2. Mazda 10.7
3. Toyota 12.9
4. Nissan 13.3
5. Lexus 15.1
6. Hyundai 16.2
7. Mitsubishi 17.0
8. Daewoo 21.9
9. Skoda 25.2
10. Mercedes-Benz 25.6
11. Subaru 26.3
12. Seat 27.6
13. Volvo 28.5
14. Porsche 29.6
15. Volkswagen 30.1
16. Peugeot 30.8
17. BMW 34.0
18. Fiat 35.3
19. Vauxhall 35.9
20. Ford 36.4
21. Chrysler 37.2
22. MG 37.7
23. Jaguar 37.9
24. Citroen 38.0
25. Renault 38.4
26. Alfa Romeo 39.4
27. Rover 40.3
28. Audi 41.2
29. Saab 42.1
30. Land Rover 45.4

Ok 18th aint exactly great but its improving & better than Vauxhall,Ford,Audi & even Saab.

I hope that has put a few 'myths' to rest.
 
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