Technical Side airbag internal failure.

[Morty Mort]

Hello.

After being pretty used to the ding-ding-ding of the airbag system I connected my new OCS sensor to test it out. But to my big surprise - the red light didn't go away. It worked the way it should, as when I pressed it hard, the amber light flashed.

So I took it to NAF (Norwegian AA I guess) and hooked it to their green Bosch diagnostic machine. There they found two stored faults, that were not absolute, but sporadic - at least that's what he said. Maybe two intermittent faults would add up to one big failure. Anyway the faults were cleared and I drove off.

One fault was the OCS sensor positive connection or something.

The other was left side airbag internal failure. I have ofcourse cleaned all my connectors everyhere, but the side airbags seems impossible to get to. I can see one connector at the bottom of the B pillar, but the seat is obstructing the panel so I can't remove it. Do I have to remove the seat? Are there any other connection blocks up to the airbag? Will the seatbelt have to come off?

Anyway, he said I shouldn't mind too much as it was not a complete failure - it could be down to a weak battery etc.

Any comments?

 

[Deckchair5]

Lots of airbag connectors so with multiple faults you can chase your tail a bit without the means to detect fault codes as they happen and as you correct suspect faults

3 or 5 door? Do you have curtain air bags? I thought you fitted an OCS simulator, maybe someone else?

Anyway "absolute" and "sporadic" would be the equivilent to Stored and Pending fault codes

Pending = car says- "something's up -keep an eye out - if ok erase it sometime"
Stored= happened too many times or severe fault- time for a warning -lock in the warning-tell the driver

Left side airbag i would hope would be the one in the left seat and I would hope they called the curtain bags "window" or "curtain" airbag


Seat air bag connector has two, one under seat, nice and easy to get to

and one in the seat next to the airbag itself which would need removing seat to get to.

The side airbag itself is quite easy to change if you need to once the seat is out. If you've replaced the OCS then you'll know that's not so difficult and you can remove the seat easily in 10mins.

 

[Morty Mort]

Thanks.

I have no idea if it's the airbag in the seat or in the pillar, regarding to "side airbag". The orange connector is absent in my car, but yesterday I found it to be cut off, and soldered - very professional with shrinkwraps... so that one is cleared. But again, I need to cut it to install the new OCS mat.

And yes I had a simulator. It worked well, but it was just a temporary fix until I got my hands on a new mat. The mat costs over £350 GBP here, so I got it from another member at the forum for £100 GBP and that's more like it - he had apparently bought the wrong number, as there are two versions of the sensor.

By the way, I've got 5 doors and 8 airbags.

I'd actually guess left airbag to be the B pillar airbag, and thosein the seats "rear airbags".

Like this:
- Front left airbag.
- Left side airbag.
- Rear left airbag.
- Rear side left airbag.

Anyone comment this?

I can wait with the side airbag until someone can point it out, as left side is driver's side. The OCS is in the right seat, so that one first.

Will do some photos if I get to it.

Regards, Morten.

 

[Deckchair5]

Hi Morten
"Side air bags" as far as I know always seem to mean the side of the seats. The front ones in the side of the backrest and the rears in the side stuffing of the rear seats

The hi level ones up by the grab handles are referred to as "Window" or "curtain" airbags


So there are side airbags - front and rear
and curtain airbags


Any time you need parts - just ask
Can't promise though- problem can be matching up to your spec model

 

[Morty Mort]

Ah... Thanks for clarifying. Left seat it is then - but another time.

The passenger seat is ripped out now. Just found out I've got a heated seat... Ooops, but it was just to rip it off the original cushion and tape it to the new seat and OCS. Another layer, just like the OCS mat.

Have to put my baby girl to sleep now, so time for a walk in the sun before reassembly.

M.

 

[Morty Mort]

Seat air bag connector has two, one under seat, nice and easy to get to.

That one was already professioanally soldered. Will check it anyway.

One in the seat next to the airbag itself which would need removing seat to get to.

Do I need to remove the seat? I've got rear doors for easy access (which were very helpful when changing the OCS mat). I'm sorry but I can't really interpret that drawing. Where is the connector shown?

The side airbag itself is quite easy to change if you need to once the seat is out.

Hopefully it's ok. Will clean the connectors first and get an airbag system scan afterwards.

Thanks again. Loads of money saved today - maybe I can spend them on some decent speakers instead... :slayer:

Also time for a new donation perhaps, long time since last one.

 

[Morty Mort]

Reply to my own post...

A couple of weeks ago, when it was cold and damp outside. Ding-ding-ding. Airbag failure - stop engine. :yuck:

After a lot of swearing and cursing the damn Fiat to hell, I calmed down and took off. It has been this way since, until today. I had a feeling it had to be the driver's (left) side airbag, since this has been the culprit earlier. The OCS mat was changed pre-summer and had no symptoms of making a mess again. The wires underneath the seats are professionally soldered, so this left me with the connectors inside the seat or the airbag itself.

But I couldn't psyche myself up, and bit the dust and travelled to FIAT and the Examiner...

After 3 minutes they found something like (if I remember correctly) "Left side airbag sensor failure". OK, I was right about what airbag caused the ding-ding-ding, but what sensor??? Are there any sensors anywhere, or does it refer to the airbag itself? The garage didn't know (no surprise) so I ask here. The garageman ment the sensor was in the seat? Are there any side impact sensors in the rocker panel or B-pillar (maybe that's the plug at the bottom then of the plastic panel) that is malfunctioning? Are there side impact sensors at all?

Anyone have a left side airbag for sale just to rule it out?

 

[StiloBoy]

This might sound 100% retarded, but how about you disable the passenger airbags? That'll rule out 50% of the airbags in the car and give you a genuine place to start? I take it you have the passenger airbag disable option in the losing panel of the dash/door?

I'm thinking if you turn the switch to airbag off (for child seats) that it won't check the airbags as they are disabled, instantly helping your problem solving?

 

[Morty Mort]

Just a bit retarded.

Turning the off the front passenger airbag is done with the key on the passenger side dash with door open.

Rear side airbag system is shut off with the key in the boot.

None of these help, as it is the airbag (or sensor) in the driver's front seat that is malfunctioning. :bang:

 

[StiloBoy]

I had a feeling when i read through the post that I was missing something! It seems it was half my brain! lol

 

[Deckchair5]

Got the fault code Morty?
Left side airbag sensor failure sounds like it could be the side impact detection sensor if you have them


K66 shown here

 

[Davren]

After 3 minutes they found something like (if I remember correctly) "Left side airbag sensor failure". OK, I was right about what airbag caused the ding-ding-ding, but what sensor??? Are there any sensors anywhere, or does it refer to the airbag itself? The garage didn't know (no surprise) so I ask here. The garageman ment the sensor was in the seat? Are there any side impact sensors in the rocker panel or B-pillar (maybe that's the plug at the bottom then of the plastic panel) that is malfunctioning? Are there side impact sensors at all?

The side inpact sensors are in the front door pillar near the seat belt reels.

There's a new one for sale on eBay UK for £14.99 (GBP)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Fiat-Stilo-Side-Airbag-Sensor-Genuine-Fiat-Part_W0QQitemZ350048842669QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item51808973ad&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

It's item number 350048842669 if the link doesn't work.

Dave.

 

[Deckchair5]

Cheers Davren. Might simply be a fault in the wiring to it I'm thinking. Fault code might tell you if it's short circuit, going to ground etc.

It's just a plain and simple normally open switch with usually a steel ball that jumps over and makes contact if the g force is strong enough

 

[Morty Mort]

This is the one. Not the airbag itself, just the sensor for it. I bought it just to be sure. Thanks mates. The seat has to come out to get up the B pillar, and then I'll just change it to be sure. 15 GBP is really nothing, it's 1/8 of an Examiner hookup.

Hopefully he will send it overseas, if not PNL comes to the rescue - as before.

Wohoooo!

 

[Morty Mort]

Got the fault code Morty?
Left side airbag sensor failure sounds like it could be the side impact detection sensor if you have them

View attachment 69514
K66 shown here

Thanks for that picture. I guess it must be up the B pillar then.

Didn't get a fault code, as the mechanic didn't pay attention to it... The printer didn't work either so no printout.

I've ordered the part (sensor) now and I've been told it's already on its way overseas. The booring thing is that it's negative Celcius outside and king winter is approaching - with street parking only.

This day the airbag lamp lit up again, after being cleared yesterday. This only happens when it's cold and damp, so I'd believe the sensor is malfunctioning.

I though it was pretty rare that an airbag died.

 

[Deckchair5]

Remember that a fault code tells you where to look for problems and not replace everything in sight. It's saying "problem in that circuit- investigate!"





I'd check the wiring from the airbag ecu M60 to the sensor K66 or K67. The sensor ( a simple normally open switch) is open circuit until it triggers so a simple connection fault anywhere along the line from the airbag ecu in the centre console to the sensor could easily be your problem. Simply removing the airbag ecu connectors, cleaning up and reattaching may cure the bad connection

Note the wiring diag is wrong (ha!). Can't have two pins numbered 27 so it's pins 24 and 26 for K66 and then pins 25 and 27 for K67


Two connectors on the airbag ecu M60A and M60B
M60B shown above has 32 pins



M60A has just 24 pins

 

[Morty Mort]

You are right ofcourse. And thank you for those illustrations. Just replacing parts is kind of a garage thing...

But the seat has to come out, and the B-pillar must be stripped. The sensor will be removed and cleaned, and regarding the time this will take, I'd really just rule it out and replace it, as it was really a cheap part at 15 GBP. It's the cost of 2 glasses of 0.4l beer on an evening out (Norwegian price ofcourse).

Do you know how I will get to the airbag ECU? I can see it is around the gear lever somewhere.

 

[Deckchair5]

Sure, for the price of it you may as well have one ready in your toolbox

I think the airbag ECU is just forward of the gearshift underneath the vent control box


Here's what you're looking for (car removed for clarity. Ha!)
You can see the M60A and M60B connector slots

 

[PNL]

And car included for another view..:devil:

Item 2..

 

[Morty Mort]

Thanks mate. Will be interresting how to get to it then... Fiat plastic trims and plugs have their own way of self-destruct. Will be a good idea to clean all the plugs of the airbag ECU and its connectors.