Technical SEICENTO CITYMATIC GEARBOX PROBLEMS

[MDR]

Grateful if anyone out there can provide me with some clues as to what may be wrong with the gearbox on a SEI that I recently purchased for my daughter. She has a lovely little 1999T Sei Citymatic (900cc) with about 16k on the clock - it has the semi-automatic (clutchless gearbox). She has recently been have a few problems the basically fall into the following:

a. Difficulty selecting reverse gear.
b. When 1st or reverse are selected and the accelerator is pressed the car 'thuds' quite violently and can, if you don't accelerate through, stall.
c. The change from 1st to 2nd is also juddering. Gear change in the upper gears seems ok but......she was driving today and simply could not select 5th or any other gear for that matter - car was stuck in neutral and could have been ruddy dangerous if she could not have pulled over immediately. On this occasion the ACS (Auto Clutch System) light also came on and she was unable to start the car for several minutes.

Thats the best I can describe the symptoms. But am at a loss as to what it might be - the ACS light does not come on at system check but the 'thud' in 1st and reverse is still there. Grateful, before I approach Fiat or an independant specialist, that someone out there might be able to give me some 'am I getting ripped off' advice and knowledge.

Many thanks in advance - came upon the website tonight trying to find some info - very impressed (particularly with Pete)...cheers,
Mick

 

[MDR]

:I
Sorry folks - hope I havent given the impression that it was a gearbox I bought for my lass - just read the post and should have read 'problems with the gearbox in the car that I just bought for my daughter....'

Blush again,

Mick

 

[HP]

I have no info at all on the citymatic 'box, sorry.

Anyone else know?
Anyone else got any info? wouldn't mind seeing it.

Pete.
Cinq sporting 1242cc
Cinqs&Seis Yahoo group
Clubcento

 

[John H]

Nothing known here, either... but a quick search turned this up:

http://www.carsurvey.org/review_36589.html

the important bit is-

The gear actuator.
My car has had 4 new gear actuators.
The space between seems to be anything from 6-9 months. First 4 months (Jan 2001) after buying the car and constant adjustments in between. Second replacement was June 2001. At the third replacement, the garage had someone else who had the same problem. I do not have any other faults with my little car - it runs perfectly, good fuel consumption, maintenance cost repairs, except when the the gear seize up and I am unable to move the car, which on a couple of occasions has been in a dangerous place. My garage has been very helpful, but being without my car has been a problem for me. Fiat have only been able to let me have a replacement.

I would be grateful if someone out there could let me know why the gear actuator keeps going - even my garage is at a loss.

---------

It seems to be "an automatic clutch coupled with a conventional 5 speed manual transmission (ie two pedals and a gear stick!)"


Regards


John H

 

[MDR]

Thanks for the replies and info folks - it appears that the citymatic is the mysterious Sei and can, as the last post in the thread described, be problematic.

Have spoken to our local Italian Car Specialists and they too do not have too much experience with this little baby other than replacing clutches.

Just hate the thought of throwing myself to the wolves at main dealers and their excessive repair costs. I wonder it this little chap could be converted from Electronic Clutch to normal manual operation? Might be cheaper in the long run - any ideas folks?

Thanks again.

Mick R

 

[gaz.d]

my dad has semi auto hyundia and he had similier problems, i will answer your questions and maybe find similaritys.

a. gear box sensor about size of a car stereo mite be on its way out cost £400 to put rite on my dads car[xx(]

b.does this happen on cold startup, if so they reckons its common because it has no clutch you cant dip in to build up the revs

c.maybe not use to set up of car yet they reckon its an art to use semi auto correctly
other problem sounds like a sensor has gone to tell the car when its ready to change gear.
if it gets stuck there should be instructions of what to do in the car manual. Or tuen engine off wait 5 secs, turn key once so lights come on dash, take it out of gear, tehn start the car.

hope this helps

 

[MDR]

Thanks for that Gaz from Wrexham - sounds pretty similar to me.

Took it to an independant Fiat specialist today - nearly got taken out twice with the 'ACS' light coming on and losing all control - no gears available just coasting. The fault was repetitive and in the most dangerous of places - will be approaching FIAT directly about that to complain vigourously - it is extremely dangerous - thank god I was not in an outer lane on a busy motorway/dual carriageway. As you say - once you stop and wait a min or so it allows you to start up only to lose it again a mile or so down the road. VERY DANGEROUS and VERY ANNOYING. Having experienced it myself I now know what my young lass was having to deal with and I was furious.

The specialist admits he is not a specialist on these particular gearboxes but seems to think it is something to do with the clutch. He tells me that he can drop the gearbox to get to the clutch to have a look (about 3.5 hours labour) to see what is going on. If all is well I will still have to pay him for 'having a look' - yeah, a grey area I know and will probably have to bite the bullet for now. However, if it is any thing else then I am going to have to take it to the main dealer who do not have a very good reputationn at all up here and, as you say, pay £500 plus to have it fixed. Bummer!

Am looking into having it converted into a manual clutch system - the specialist said all the gubbins are there (will need a new clutch pedal/box and other bits) and will prob cost about £800. Really caught between a rock and a hard place here. If repaired by Fiat will probably try to sell on - do not want to pay that amount as regularly as some owners seem to have.

The specialist did say that there is a main Fiat Dealer/Service dept in Norfolk who specialise in this sort of thing and he will not attempt a repair until they have spoken to him - so maybe I can avoid the costs of what 'he thinks it is' (expensive £150+ just to have a look-see) and go direct to those who are known a the 'monkeys' at the main Fiat Branch.

Thanks to all again - does the 3.5 hours labour to remove the gearbox to get at the clutch sound about right - seems alot to me.

cheers,

Mick

P.S. IF ANYONE ELSE HAS ONE OF THESE AND IT STARTS PLAYING UP PLEASE TRY TO AVOID DRIVING IT - IT PUTS YOU IN GREAT DANGER - IF YOU CAN GET A TOW OR A TRUCK DO IT - SAFER THAN GETTING STRANDED WITH X TONS OF TRUCK AND REPS FLYING AT YOU!!!

 

[gaz.d]

fiat should be able to hook it up to one of there diagnostic computers and that should pin point the problem staight away, if it has something to do with the electronics.

i think these tests cost about £40, if there is no sign of trouble then take a mechanic along with you and pray for it to happen when he is in the car.

i would try this route first because it is the cheapest and if there is no problem with the sensors then it mite well be the clutch.

 

[MDR]

Cheers Gaz,
Yeah - I was thinking along the same lines mate. Keen to get this sorted and then probably get rid of it - shame coz everything else about the car is great. The experience of it just shutting down in an extremely dangerous place leaving you (more importantly my daughter) in severe danger will not allow me to rest when she is out in it. I have sent a letter of complaint to FIAT UK - the manual says that you can still drive the car safely but slowy - in our case it just left us in neutral unable to select a gear to get out of trouble. In my view the manual should warn you that if the ACS light comes on you are in dangere but if it did, who in their right mind would buy one!

Thanks for all your help.

 

[scanny]

Citymatic - don't buy one.

We've got one, bought secondhand with only 4k miles about 3 years ago.

It's had 4 replacement actuators fitted. Symptoms were as above. ACS light, warning beeps then nothing, light 'clonking' as it takes up the drive, or ACS and won't start at all.

Fiat dealers deny any knowledge of this as a common fault.

There's no need to take the gearbox out, it'll just run up the bill.

Check fuses on at back of engine bay on left side as you're looking in, sensor leads on the gearbox linkage, leads on the actuator bolted to the front of the gearbox and the control unit inside the engine bay, low down at the front on the right.

Make sure the reservoir is topped up (under battery) and bled - cylinder on top of the gearbox.

If this doesnt work the part is around £500 plus fitting plus VAT!!

Criminal!

 

[dawozere]

soembody on here has got a converted citymatic, there was a post on here somewhere about it. I had a look at one when i was after a new car, and it looks like the majority of stuff is there, drop yaself a second hand gearbox (cinq 900cc should fit? i think?) all the cables and the pedal and u'd be near enough there?

 

[Enzo]

I'm very disappointed of all this...in Italy Fiat dealers usually supports the expenses of the citymatic owners when automatic clutchs stop working, as it's recognised as a "common fault":I!Of course they check if the car has been regularly serviced at the authorized garages[^] before repairing!


Passion has neither brands nor models!

La passione non ha nè marche nè modelli!
(Quite happy dark met. blue Panda driver!)

 

[D.White Motors]

Right here goes,

1. Has the actuator been setup correctly?
2. E.C.U checked?
3. Most overlooked problem, actuator supporting bracket broken? You would not believe how many idiots change actuators because of this bracket!

 

[D.White Motors]

P.S The clutch is the same as a manual, no electromagnetic unit as the CVT in the 176 punto. It just has a robotic arm activating the clutch.The bracket can fracture with excessive force and its the same as not putting your foot properly on the clutch and trying to change gear, notchy and difficult shifts.

 

[Babysei]

OMG i LOVE your avatar D White LOL

BABYSEI - CURRENTLY IN THE WASH

 

[sisei]

Hi
I had a citymatic and it completely failed on me. It worked out cheaper to have a clutch installed. All they done was loop the computer to think the semi clutch was there and installed a new manual clutch with pedal. Been like it now for about 5000miles and it seems fine. Bit heavier than a normal clutch but it is done my linkages not a cylinder.
Unlike your case the box was fine and just went for me. Mine gave no warning. This is probably not much help but it just shows for about £500-£600 garages will conver them.
Avoid taking a totally broken one to a fiat dealer! They assured me that it wasn't possible to convert it and said it's cheaper to scrap. Hmmm thank god I got a second opinion.

Hope this helps
Simon

white Fiat Seicento - Was citymatic but converted to an SX!

If only it was the 1.1 model......

 

[sisei]

Oh yeah when it was converted the DVLA registered it as an SX not a citymatic. I removed the citymatic badge and now it's near impossible to tell it was one . Dealer wise to sell on they will never know as the car will be clear and the logbook/dvla records will show an SX.

white Fiat Seicento - Was citymatic but converted to an SX!

If only it was the 1.1 model......

 

[smurfhead]

Mine thuds in to first and reverse anyway. hehe

Smurfhead - would trade as Gaz but bit confusing with another guy with the same car on here with the same name. lol

Seicento Sporting (2001)