General Seat belt help

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General Seat belt help

Cooke2133

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I’ve bought an ex Openreach 2016 van, it only has a single passenger seat however I’ve picked up a double bench seat for it. My question is, where does the centre seat belt bolt in to? I’ve attached pic of the end, it goes through the centre of the seat
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I took my double seat out and put a single in. Have just taken photos of the unused double seat in my garage. Photos show the back of the seat at the bottom in the middle. First shows it with the cover on, which is held on by one screw at the bottom, then you pull the cover down out of the clips that hold the top. Arrow shows where the seat belt stalk bolts in. Hope that helps
 

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When I replaced the double with a single I was concerned what might happen when I took it for MOT - The V5 said seating capacity 3, and tester couldn't say it was safe to carry 3 people when its only got 2 seats! So I sent the V5 off to Swansea and got seating capacity changed to 2 before the MOT. This took a few weeks so I didn't want to be waiting for it to get the MOT.
But tester can say its safe to carry 2 people when it has 3 seats so i guess you should be OK?
 
Hello,

Is the van registered (and homologated) for 2 or 3 people? If for 2, are you sure you're allowed to add a 3rd seat in the UK?
X2/50 and X2/90 Ducato/Relay/Boxer comes with a double seat as standard, or an optional single seat - both use the same mounting points so its OK.
I suppose, strictly speaking, you should tell your insurers but when I got quotes the premium is the same for 2 or 3 seats so I didn't bother - both can be described as unmodified because they come out of the factory like that, with either the single or double seat.
 
I don't know the law in the UK, so I'm speaking from a perspective of the EU citizen. This might however be at least partially relevant, as the OP's van left the factory when the UK was still in the EU.

How do I know anything about it? Looking for the van I came across different configurations: 1+2, 1+1, 1+0 with original mounting points for the seat and the seatbelt, 1+0 without the original mounting points. As all I need is precisely 1+1 I had to check if and what would be possible to modify in a way the van could be registered, insured and used legally. And not for lots of money.

Every car / van has a homologation. The factory confirms that the vehicle was built and homologated according to a set of norms and issues the Certificate of Conformity which includes the vehicle VIN. For the EU vehicles (which is the case I assume), there is a homologation number on the identification plate (under the bonnet for the triplets). The vehicle leaves the factory with the primary homologation + the appropriate CoC. A part of the vehicles is then transformed by specialized companies that can modify the setup and issue a secondary homologation + CoC, which void the primary ones. The process can be repeated several times (but usually the 2nd one is the last one). Only the final homologation is valid.

Especially vans are frequently transformed according to the needs of the first customer, and it those transformations are out of the possibilities of the factory, it's done by the builders / converters / upfitters (whatever you want to name it). Some of the modifications are minor, some definitely major.

The 1+0 without the original mounting points I've mentionned earlier is the major modifications case, it included the following changes on the passenger side: seat removal, floor lowering in order to make two or three steps, A-pillar modification, B-pillar removal, door removal, new B-pillar + new pneumatic door installation and lots of minor adaptations. The van was originally homologated for 3 people, but after those modifications homologated and registered for 1 person only.

Even in such case adding seats was theoretically possible, but economically unjustified, as it would cost a fortune, because the van would require to be rebuilt and rehomologated. I've asked for that more or less 4 years ago and only the testing procedure costs started from like 5000 EUR. In every case if a rehomologation is needed a new homologated seat + seatbelt + professionnal instalation are required.

The general rule is that you can lower the number of seats starting with the last valid homologation (3 to 2, 2 to 1), but it still requires some paperwork (as in your case @Reg 65). But you cannot add seats to have more than what the homologation + CoC say. Adding seats could be possible only if previously the 3rd seat was removed by the owner (also like in your case) and... there are two cases now: in Poland it would work only if the removal was not mentionned in the registration documents, but in Slovakia that could be done if the homologation / CoC were not changed. I found companies that are buying the van from you, sell it to Slovakia, make the modifications and the paperwork, then register the van there with the new setup (for example 3 seats) and sell it back to you. Which gets problematic if you sell / buy the van as a particular, not a company, because there's VAT to be paid in some cases... And those companies are not doing that for nothing.

I know and understand that the factory mounting points are the same for the single and double paseenger seat in the triplets (probably also all the other siblings now) and only the external passenger seatbelt it attached to the van body, but this only facilitates the process if you want to go through that in the proper way (modification by the professionnal + rehomologation).

Note that the seatbelts are different with / without the passenger(s) airbag(s) as the clip you attach the seatbelt to is different with a pretensionner than without it.

I will also say that I personnaly find this law was necessary as there were many extremely cheap modifications made with no respect to physics and rules which caused several casualties during accidents.

And there are still people that modify their vehicles without any self-preservation instinct. Earlier this year I've found a youtube video of a guy that attached the passenger seat with a construction grade long threaded rod instead of a high tensile factory bolts (because the bolts are deep in the tubes that hold the seat in place, so are difficult to reach). And found nothing wrong with that... The factory bolts are like 10 to 20 EUR each and the appropriate socket and longer adapter to reach the bolt wouldn't probably exceed 5 EUR. Pity the guy haven't changed the bolts to rods on his seat, but on the passenger one.

As this subject is complicated and might vary depending on model / year and country, such modifications should be discussed with the authorities before any investments are made.

The van with the pneumatic door was the second most ideal for my needs from what I was able to find during almost 2 years. I was very close to buying it, but luckily I've checked it earlier and found out that I wouldn't be able to use it for my needs. EDIT: FYI, the van I finally bought was fifth most ideal only, but became the first one as the others had such (or similar) issues as described above :D
 
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@ green vanper thats very interesting, thanks
Before I sold my previous van I put the double seat back, and sent the V5 to Swansea to be changed back to 3 seats. Both changes took a couple of weeks but there seemed to be no problem and there was no fee. But, as you say, the van had seating capacity of 3 previously so it was only reverting to original. I put the single seat in my new van and got the seating capacity changed from 3 to 2 in the same way. I can't recall anyone else changing a van that came with 2 seats to 3 seats. Because they come with the double seat as standard unless, like BT, you make a special order for the single seat.
The result of this is markets like ebay have a dire shortage of single seats and a glut of double seats - supply and demand. Don't be fooled by the asking prices of double seats - look what they actually sell for - I have seen a brand new double seat go for the reserve price of £5. I paid £250 for a new single seat about 10 years ago but they seem even more scarce now. The salesman at the Fiat Professional dealer I bought my Ducato from 3 years ago asked me how I managed to get a single seat - he said they are like gold dust now and he has often been asked by acquaintances if he can get them a single seat - order new vans with singles and swap them for a double. But he had to tell them he can't do it.
 
Yes, I know about the prices difference and high demand :D

A set of 2 'captain' seats with swivel bases, two armrests each and lumbar support, but as far as I remember without the pneumatics in Poland is around 2000 - 2500 EUR now.

A set of 2 standard single sets is usually around 800 - 1000 EUR. I managed to get a set for 450 EUR with delivery included :D So basically for the price of one. And they are identical. They have one armrest each, lumbar support and new material was put on :) I got it from a car upholstery company that repairs, replaces and refurbishes the seats for all types of vans :) Someone ordered the 'captain' seats for his 2 or 3 years camper with like 15 tkm only from them and they got the seats :) So they are in a perfect shape. I will have to think what to do with the old ones, pity UK is so far away, because I could sell my driver's seat as a single passenger seat to someone in need :D And the seat is too big to put it somewhere in the van during a trip to France for example. It also has like 100 tkm only ;) As far as I remember, the handbrake support can be dismounted easily :)
 
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Yes, I know about the prices difference and high demand :D

A set of 2 'captain' seats with swivel bases, two armrests each and lumbar support, but as far as I remember without the pneumatics in Poland is around 2000 - 2500 EUR now.

A set of 2 standard single sets is usually around 800 - 1000 EUR. I managed to get a set for 450 EUR with delivery included :D They have one armrest each, lumbar support and new material was put on :) I got it from a car upholstery company that repairs, replaces and refurbishes the seats for all types of vans :) Someone ordered the 'captain' seats for his 2 or 3 years camper with like 15 tkm only from them and they got the seats :) So they are in a perfect shape. I will have to think what to do with the old ones, pity UK is so far away, because I could sell my driver's seat as a single passenger seat to someone in need :D And the seat is too big to put it somewhere in the van during a trip to France for example. It also has like 100 tkm only ;) As far as I remember, the handbrake support can be dismounted easily :)
You got them at a very good price I think. I recall checking main dealer list price for a X2/50 single passenger seat about 12 years ago - you couldn't buy it
complete you had to buy it in separate parts which came to over £1,000
 
When I replaced the double with a single I was concerned what might happen when I took it for MOT - The V5 said seating capacity 3, and tester couldn't say it was safe to carry 3 people when its only got 2 seats! So I sent the V5 off to Swansea and got seating capacity changed to 2 before the MOT. This took a few weeks so I didn't want to be waiting for it to get the MOT.
But tester can say its safe to carry 2 people when it has 3 seats so i guess you should be OK?
Ask VOSA for advice and Im sure you will get the right answer.
 
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