Technical Running a leaded panda

[Uno Momento]

how do they take to unleaded fuel? I'm collecting a 1986 fire engined panda next weekend, and i was wondering what experience you guys have had of the leaded version of the Panda?

Do i need to worry about pouring redex in it?

TIA

 

[udtrev]

Do you have access to LRP (Lead Replacement Petrol) ?


Trev

 

[Uno Momento]

It'd be nice not to have to rely on the limited number fuel stations around here that do have it

 

[Pandarus]

Don't all FIRE engines run on unleaded?

I had a 903 Uno and I used to run that on u/l plus redex or lrp.

 

[udtrev]

Then I think you might need to track down a had with modified valve seats that can run unleaded although I could well be wrong.


Trev

 

[m a d]

Here, in Eastern Europe, we buy lead replacement in small bottles. 1ml per 1l of petrol. It's avaliable at most petrol stations.
You can use ebay
http://motors.shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38.l1313&_nkw=LEAD+SUBSTITUTE&_sacat=9800

 

[Marti155]

If it is the F.I.R.E engine that the Panda has then as far as i am aware it will run on unleaded petrol without modification. My dad had the same quierie when he used to have a F-reg Mk1 Uno. It had the 999cc F.I.R.E engine and he did use LRP to start with but changed to just useing normal unleaded. The only thing he had to do was increse the idel speed a tiny bit. Apart from that though no problems.

 

[Uno Momento]

Thanks for all your relpies. It sounds like a later head maybe in order then?

 

[Charlotte]

You could always get the lead replacement maybe? That's what I use on the Imp

 

[nitro_warrior]

As m_a_d says you can buy a lead additive to add to unleaded fuel. You can get the stuff at Halfords or the like.

 

[Charlotte]

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/fuel/LRP.html

Maybe this will help?

 

[petel]

The FIRE type engine was designed from the outset to run on unleaded fuel BUT, Fiat produced the first two to three years of production with either a higher or lower ( I cannot remember which ) compression ratio, requiring the use of leaded fuel.

In 1987, they changed the compression ratio ( not clear if the valve seats were altered ) to allow the use of unleaded fuel and cars from 1987 onwards ( those on a carb ) could use either type of fuel. This continued until the introduction SPI and CAT in 92, when it became unleaded only.

There is reference to cars with engines up to a certain serial number requiring leaded fuel, I may have seen this in a Haynes type manual but you should be safe to assume that a 1986 FIRE engine would need leaded fuel.

Please let me know if you learn any more.
Rgds.

 

[sutjeska]

IMHO all FIRE engines were designed to run on unleaded. You could also use leaded, unless it was equipped with catalyst. German brochure from June 1987 says "bleifrei" which means "unleaded". I doubt that Italians made two versions if the same engine, first strictly for leaded fuel, second for unleaded.

Sutjeska

 

[sutjeska]

And let's see what good old Mr. Haynes says about that

Sutjeska

 

[Uno Momento]

Perfect, thats just what i wanted to know. Thanks Sutjeska

 

[sutjeska]

My pleasure

Sutjeska

 

[Chas Uno]

The FIRE type engine was designed from the outset to run on unleaded fuel BUT, Fiat produced the first two to three years of production with either a higher or lower ( I cannot remember which ) compression ratio, requiring the use of leaded fuel.

In 1987, they changed the compression ratio ( not clear if the valve seats were altered ) to allow the use of unleaded fuel and cars from 1987 onwards ( those on a carb ) could use either type of fuel. This continued until the introduction SPI and CAT in 92, when it became unleaded only.

There is reference to cars with engines up to a certain serial number requiring leaded fuel, I may have seen this in a Haynes type manual but you should be safe to assume that a 1986 FIRE engine would need leaded fuel.

Please let me know if you learn any more.
Rgds.

I agree with most of the very useful information from Petel, though it IS possible to run some 1986 models of the 999cc FIRE on unleaded. I have a 1986 Uno with the 999cc FIRE and have run it on unleaded for 40K miles. Additionally I had a previous 1986 Uno that I also ran on unleade for 30K miles. Neither car suffered any ill effects nor valve seat recession, which is a common occurance with running a leaded engine on unleaded fuel.

According the Uno Haynes manual (like Sutjeska pointed out in the Panda Haynes), Unos after a certain chassis number are able to run unleaded fuel on both the 903 and 999cc engines that it shares with the Panda. Both my 999cc Unos (one was an October '86 and the other was a May '86) had chassis numbers that were just within that required to run unleaded. Therefore I suspect that most '86 Panda FIREs, at least those registered from May onwards, will run fine on unleaded.

With FIRE engines being so cheap I'd run it on unleaded anyway because if it did go pop an unleaded replacement can be found for very little and fitted in a day.

Hope this helps!

 

[Uno Momento]

That was my thinking, if it does go pop it shouldn't be too hard to find a replacement engine. I've done engine conversions in the past, so i'm not shy about using a spanner!

 

[sutjeska]

That was my thinking, if it does go pop it shouldn't be too hard to find a replacement engine. I've done engine conversions in the past, so i'm not shy about using a spanner!

You CAN run all FIRE engines on unleaded without fear, read carefully.
Fiat altered compression ratio on a Panda with a chassis number 4112510, to run it on cheaper "Premium unleaded" instead of "Super unleaded". Probably the same day this change occured in Uno. You could also run both engines on "Four star leaded" - the most popular fuel in UK these days.
FIRE engines didn't have a catalyst in UK until SPI version in 1992. After 1992 unleaded was mandatory. IMO in 1986 unleaded fuel wasn't popular in UK, unlike in Switzerland, for example, it was introduced widely in UK in the end of 80's.
In Switzerland FIRE engines had catalyst from the beginning.

Sutjeska

 

[petel]

My thanks to Jo Widrington of the Fiat Motor Club GB for the following information. Details are taken from an official Fiat document, issued in the early to middle 90's, an abridged version of which was published in the FMC(GB)'s magazine " Parliamo ".

This document relates to the use of leaded and unleaded fuel in Fiats vehicles.

Fiat split the vehicles into three groups as follows,

RED. Vehicles that should be run on leaded petrol only.

AMBER. Vehicles originally designed to be run on leaded petrol but which can be run on unleaded provided that
" rapid acceleration and/or constant high speeds are avoided ".

GREEN. Vehicles designed from the outset, to run on unleaded fuel.

The list covers Fiats vehicles from the 126 to the Tipo but we are only concerned with the Panda and Uno here.

The RED list, mentions :-

Only the Uno 45ES, 1983 to 1985 and all Uno Turbo models other than the Turbo ie.
Pleasingly, the RED list makes no mention of the Panda at all.

The GREEN list, mentions :-

Panda 750 from 86 onwards.
Panda 1000CL, Panda 1000S & Panda 4x4 from 88 onwards.
Uno Formula 45, Uno 45 FIRE, Uno 45S, Uno 65S, Uno Selecta, Uno 70SX, Uno Turbo ie, all from 88 onwards.

The implication is that any vehicles that do not figure in the RED or GREEN lists, will fall into the AMBER list and should be treated accordingly.

It would follow therefore, that a 1986 FIRE engined Panda would fall into the AMBER list.

Hope this is of help.
Rgds.