I had a 182 before my 100HP, non cup, that was stiff but handled bumps well. Think the Panda has more grip though and seems more fun to chuck around.
General Ride in Fiat 100HP
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General Ride in Fiat 100HP
I had a 182 before my 100HP, non cup, that was stiff but handled bumps well. Think the Panda has more grip though and seems more fun to chuck around.
I would imagine that it's not a case of the Panda having more grip but more that you were travelling faster in the Clio.
Having had an ITR, S2000 and Westfield Megablade, I wouldn't say that the engines lack torque - the fun doesn't start until you get past 6000rpm!
To be fair though saying a VTEC engine is all revs and no torque simply isn't true. The whole point of VTEC is that you get the best of both worlds, ie a tractable engine at lower revs that will equal an engine of the same capacity torque wise. Then you have the banzai power of VTEC. So though the torque looks relatively low compared to the headline bhp figures it will have comparable torque to a non VTEC NA engine of the same capacity.
For example my old DC2 (Integra Type-R) had way more torque than my 100hp at low revs and was easily quicker. At high revs the 100hp is a snail in comparison.
I would imagine that it's not a case of the Panda having more grip but more that you were travelling faster in the Clio.
Having had an ITR, S2000 and Westfield Megablade, I wouldn't say that the engines lack torque - the fun doesn't start until you get past 6000rpm!
Well it certainly feels like it grips more, the only thing i miss about the Clio is the acceleration. I certainly dont miss the heavy springy clutch, poor build quality, dodgy electrics.......
The clio was the same, nothing happened till 5250ish rpm when the variable timing kicked in. I meant all vtec engines have no low down torque, which means you have to rev the nuts of it all the time, not the best for everyday driving. Oh, and at those kind of revs petrol doesn't last long!!!
You have to be on drugs to think that a Fiat has more grip than a Renno.
Well i have owned both, and in my opinion it does. No drugs involved!! I find the panda more fun to drive than the clio, simple as that. My 182 was a non cup, i'm sure it would have been a different story if it were a cup or a trophy.
Tbh though, the 100hp has a lot of grip and relatively little power so overcoming the grip would be harder than in a car with far more power like an RS Clio.
So this would make it feel like it has more grip.
My old DC2 (sounding like a broken record now!) would slide around far more than the 100hp so you may feel like you have less grip, but the reality is you are cornering faster. This is simply because you have enough power to overcome the grip. Likely to be the same story in the Clio.
So this would make it feel like it has more grip.
My old DC2 (sounding like a broken record now!) would slide around far more than the 100hp so you may feel like you have less grip, but the reality is you are cornering faster. This is simply because you have enough power to overcome the grip. Likely to be the same story in the Clio.
The panda just seems more planted at the same speeds though. Like i said, just my opinion.
Lots of grip isn't necessarily better. It will make you faster, which is handy if you're in a race, but give me slide and less grip any day for fun on the road at lower speeds. I know I've said it before, but that's why I love my 4x4.
On subject of ride, my Renault Sport Spider has ride quality to rival an executive saloon, albeit without comforts such as a roof, heater, windows, carpets, or any type of driving aids (brake servo included). Heaps of grip too as it happens - probably too much in truth - which is why I'll never go for trick track rubber on the old girl.
Phil
On subject of ride, my Renault Sport Spider has ride quality to rival an executive saloon, albeit without comforts such as a roof, heater, windows, carpets, or any type of driving aids (brake servo included). Heaps of grip too as it happens - probably too much in truth - which is why I'll never go for trick track rubber on the old girl.
Phil
Surely a relatively-small capacity VTEC engine 'is' the best for everyday driving? If you are in urban areas and do not require performance, the revs stay low and fuel consumption is acceptable? Once out on the open roads, you have an opportunity to extend the engine and tap into the available performance?
Modern engines are becoming smaller for efficiency coupled with forced-induction to aid performance. In my mind, this is exactly what a VTEC engine offered.
Sorry to stray off-topic!
The ride is obviously firm (which I don't mind), but the overall on road experience is excellent. It's aimed at the younger market and therefore is fairly passive, and sometimes is unfairly critisicised for this. There's other more extreme car options if this is your concern.
Renualt spider. One of my favourite cars. The GT1 race car version that I saw at Thruxton (mid 90s) was fantastic.
Renualt spider. One of my favourite cars. The GT1 race car version that I saw at Thruxton (mid 90s) was fantastic.
robjnr
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Surely a relatively-small capacity VTEC engine 'is' the best for everyday driving? If you are in urban areas and do not require performance, the revs stay low and fuel consumption is acceptable? Once out on the open roads, you have an opportunity to extend the engine and tap into the available performance?
Modern engines are becoming smaller for efficiency coupled with forced-induction to aid performance. In my mind, this is exactly what a VTEC engine offered.
Sorry to stray off-topic!
Or you could go the other way and say that a more torqued car i.e a turbo car will give you more MPG
For instance before i had my Megane 225 remapped i would get around 29 MPG, torque was 225ft.lb, after i had it mapped i was getting 35MPG on the same journey, torque went to 330ft.lb, i could drive around all day long at 1500 rpm in fourth, whether it be a hill or straight road. The V-tec would have to give it alot more RPM to get up the hill.
I haven't got nothing against V-tecs, my mate has a Civic Type R, fantastic car to rag around a track or on a B road, but for town driving their not so nice to live with. This girl i know had a S2000, she got rid because it was useless around town under 'normal' driving conditions
pdtrewern
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Sorry to still be off topic..
But i have to say i think the power plant in the s2k is surprisingly good at all rpm's, i thought it was going to be flat as a pancake below 6k but it really isn't. I came out of a 1.8v6 mazda which had an excellent torque curve, so it wasn't like i came out of anything flat. I can use high gears in the honda just like i did in the mazda...
Just a quick not back on ride quality... let us all remember that the 100hp is in a completely different price league to the clio 172/182/197/200 etc.
But i have to say i think the power plant in the s2k is surprisingly good at all rpm's, i thought it was going to be flat as a pancake below 6k but it really isn't. I came out of a 1.8v6 mazda which had an excellent torque curve, so it wasn't like i came out of anything flat. I can use high gears in the honda just like i did in the mazda...
Just a quick not back on ride quality... let us all remember that the 100hp is in a completely different price league to the clio 172/182/197/200 etc.
A guy at work has a Clio 172 on coilovers and the speed at which we got from Ruthin to Corwen at was ridiculous.........
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&s...37&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=11&saddr=ruthin&daddr=corwen
Not a road I'd reccomend if you're only here as a tourist. Lots of corners which tighten a bit more than you'd expect and have bumps mid corner. All in all a road which you really have to know to be able to have fun on SAFELY. Whilst the triangle is probably the more technical road, the road to Corwen from Ruthin
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&s...37&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=11&saddr=ruthin&daddr=corwen
Not a road I'd reccomend if you're only here as a tourist. Lots of corners which tighten a bit more than you'd expect and have bumps mid corner. All in all a road which you really have to know to be able to have fun on SAFELY. Whilst the triangle is probably the more technical road, the road to Corwen from Ruthin
robjnr
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I'm guessing you had the Mazda MX-3 V6? If thats the case then no wonder the S2000 felt good at low RPM as the Mazda only had 118lb.ft compared the the S2000's 153lb.ft.
Also you can pick up a clio 172/182 for the price of a 100HP nowadays but if you mean new for new then yes the clio is a few grand more.
Golgarth
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It handles better in the way that it can absorb a bump that would throw the 100 into a ditch.
As for price, the 197 may have been a few grand more, but include running costs and the car was stupidly more expensive! (main reason it went, along with the cooper s)
I have more fun in the 100hp and it costs 50% of the price to run as they did.
As for price, the 197 may have been a few grand more, but include running costs and the car was stupidly more expensive! (main reason it went, along with the cooper s)
I have more fun in the 100hp and it costs 50% of the price to run as they did.
robjnr
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I know what your saying i traded this in for the panda
and evan though the panda is 140 bhp down on power i still have more fun in it,
Tbh that's horrible. Leon's look like they've had their faces punched in.I know what your saying i traded this in for the panda
and evan though the panda is 140 bhp down on power i still have more fun in it,
robjnr
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I wasn't a massive fan of the shape tbh but it grew on me, mainly got it for the tuneability (simple remap will take it to 300bhp), I test drove it without any intentions of buying that exact one, but the colour was so in your face I just had to have it.
pdtrewern
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Perhaps i did not explain very well, im not talking peak torque here...
The mx3 v6 pulled from very low rpm, like it would run 15mph in 5th(top), after having this flexability i was pleasently suprised how good the honda was at low rpm (especially given the 220kg weight dissadvantage).
Btw, i like the wiper arrangement on the leon.. looks smooth, and good aero!!
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