Technical Replacing inner tie rods.

[RobL]

Hello.
Fiat Ducato X230 2002 2.8jtd.
Has anyone replaced the inner tie rods on this vehicle. I am using the tool pictured and they won't budge even with a two foot breaker bar.
I felt around the end of the steering rack and feels like a threaded hole on the shaft. Would there be a grub screw locking the tie rod bolt?
Any help appreciated.

 

[bugsymike]

Is this what you are trying to undo, as often if you look at the new one , you can see locking tabs etc.

 

[RobL]

Is this what you are trying to undo, as often if you look at the new one , you can see locking tabs etc.
View attachment 449104

Thanks for the reply. I went for it in the end, it took a four foot jack pole to shift it, a bit scary. The rack looks very robust so no damage. The "grub screw" hole turned out to be a slot in the end of the shaft which doesn't appear to have any purpose.

 

[bugsymike]

Thanks for the reply. I went for it in the end, it took a four foot jack pole to shift it, a bit scary. The rack looks very robust so no damage. The "grub screw" hole turned out to be a slot in the end of the shaft which doesn't appear to have any purpose.

Just out of curiosity on your model, what is the locking method to stop them undoing, is it a sort of one use tang/tab that will do up but breaks off when undoing? In the old days there was a locking tab that had to be hammered over. Mind you I seem to recall in those days the knuckle was serviceable by removing shims to tighten the knuckle, a bit like classic Mini top and bottom swivels
Also what form is the supporting bush for the rest of the shaft inside the rack.
Generally the side nearest the steering column doesn't get much wear as the pinion side supports it, but over long use the passenger side apart from wear in the inner knuckle joint that you are replacing, I have found wear in that bush area.

 

[RobL]

There doesn't appear to be anything to lock it and nothing on the new unit which is a bit surprising. I've watched YouTube videos and nothing on their about locking. No evidence of thread lock either. Just a plastic ring that fits into the end of the rack I take it to support the rubber bellows. I'm hoping it wasn't overtorqued in the past to compensate for no locking. The recommended is 70 nm . I couldn't find any evidence of wear in the rack. I have to fit the driver side yet (left hand drive) so will update. There wasn't a problem with the tie rods but decided to change them anyway as replacing the steering knuckles, bearings,hubs,abs sensors, brake discs, pads and driveshafts.

 

[bugsymike]

There doesn't appear to be anything to lock it and nothing on the new unit which is a bit surprising. I've watched YouTube videos and nothing on their about locking. No evidence of thread lock either. Just a plastic ring that fits into the end of the rack I take it to support the rubber bellows. I'm hoping it wasn't overtorqued in the past to compensate for no locking. The recommended is 70 nm . I couldn't find any evidence of wear in the rack. I have to fit the driver side yet (left hand drive) so will update. There wasn't a problem with the tie rods but decided to change them anyway as replacing the steering knuckles, bearings,hubs,abs sensors, brake discs, pads and driveshafts.

I see what you mean, I have just looked at a few on eBay, no sign of locking device.
Was there any smell or other sign of loctite on the old one?
I suppose with it being so tight it was safe , though I would maybe put loctite on for peace of mind.
Presumably by the time the thread undid enough to become dangerous most drivers would notice it, you would hope.

 

[RobL]

I see what you mean, I have just looked at a few on eBay, no sign of locking device.
Was there any smell or other sign of loctite on the old one?
I suppose with it being so tight it was safe , though I would maybe put loctite on for peace of mind.
Presumably by the time the thread undid enough to become dangerous most drivers would notice it, you would hope.

I've watched a few American videos where there are locking pins but appears sporadic.
I am going to use loctite, anything with the steering worries me. There is no way in the world the old rod would have undone the way it was torqued up. It seems daft there isn't a locking pin but would probably need to be a female thread on the rod rather than male.

 

[bugsymike]

I've watched a few American videos where there are locking pins but appears sporadic.
I am going to use loctite, anything with the steering worries me. There is no way in the world the old rod would have undone the way it was torqued up. It seems daft there isn't a locking pin but would probably need to be a female thread on the rod rather than male.

I think female threads are more when something is rotating in a certain direction, but even that is not used all the time

 

[Greasytrucker]

I’ve replaced a couple of inner tie rods on VAG group cars recently using a similar tool as it’s obviously a lot less hassle and cheaper than replacing a rack, neither of those had locking tabs on and neither have worked loose after being refitted so I presume it must be an industry standard

 

[RobL]

I’ve replaced a couple of inner tie rods on VAG group cars recently using a similar tool as it’s obviously a lot less hassle and cheaper than replacing a rack, neither of those had locking tabs on and neither have worked loose after being refitted so I presume it must be an industry standard

Thanks very much that's reassuring.