Technical Replacing alternator belt and rear shock absorbers and springs

[Phil R]

Hello
Can anyone advise on the replacement of the alternator belt, and the rear shock absorbers and springs on our Panda Cross 4x4 2015 model

 

[The Panda Nut]

Dampers and springs are any easy job. Dampers are a 4 bolt job. Top and bottom each side. Once the dampers are off the springs merely lift out. Worst case you may have to push the swinging arm down to make a bit more clearance. Photo the position of the bits before you start. Springs need to be rotated so the ends sit in the right place at the bottom. Put the rubber spring pads on before fitting to the car. Fit the dampers and part tighten the bottom bolts. Put the car on the ground before fully tightening the lower bolts. This means that the car is at rest, when you tighten the bolts. This means there is less subsequent stress on the rubber bushes as the suspension moves, and this may help the life of those bushes which are the thing that seems to fail first. I have tried various types and rate Monro gas filled very highly on a cost effectiveness basis. OE equipment for thePanda 169 were Monro. Bilstein are also excellent but I have had trouble with the wrong sized bolt holes on 1 pair. Bilstein should carry a lifetime warranty and say after 100,000 miles they will still be performing at 98% of original performance.

I have never done a belt but someone here will be along directly to advise I am sure.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Hello
Can anyone advise on the replacement of the alternator belt, and the rear shock absorbers and springs on our Panda Cross 4x4 2015 model

The top mount of the rear shocks on a 4x4 is partly hidden behind the plastic wheel arch liner but otherwise easy to do.

the alternator is a whole different challenge, again approached from within the wheel arch with the liner removed. Accessing the mounting bolts on the alternator can only really be done from underneath with the car up on a ramp (as you cannot reach over or around the engine from above - which you could, easily1 - do on the previous model). You also need to remove the (very heavy) sump guard from under the car (best done with the car on the ground, using a trolley jack to support the weight of the guard tray as the bolts are removed, then lower the jack and wheel the tray out on it.

 

[Panda IIs]

The top mount of the rear shocks on a 4x4 is partly hidden behind the plastic wheel arch liner but otherwise easy to do.

the alternator is a whole different challenge, again approached from within the wheel arch with the liner removed. Accessing the mounting bolts on the alternator can only really be done from underneath with the car up on a ramp (as you cannot reach over or around the engine from above - which you could, easily1 - do on the previous model). You also need to remove the (very heavy) sump guard from under the car (best done with the car on the ground, using a trolley jack to support the weight of the guard tray as the bolts are removed, then lower the jack and wheel the tray out on it.

@Herts Hillhopper I don't want to be a bore but I think the original post was alternator belt replacement (serpentine belt). If this is the case then I think its probably best done by accessing the tensioner via the drivers side (RHD) wheel arch and using a spanner or socket to rotate the tensioner against the spring in time honoured fashion to slacken the belt to allow removal (there will be YouTube vids I'm sure(?)). Take care to get the belt correctly aligned with all the pulleys and their grooves. @Phil R Not sure if we are talking TA or MJ here?

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

@Herts Hillhopper I don't want to be a bore but I think the original post was alternator belt replacement (serpentine belt). If this is the case then I think its probably best done by accessing the tensioner via the drivers side (RHD) wheel arch and using a spanner or socket to rotate the tensioner against the spring in time honoured fashion to slacken the belt to allow removal (there will be YouTube vids I'm sure(?)). Take care to get the belt correctly aligned with all the pulleys and their grooves. @Phil R Not sure if we are talking TA or MJ here?

Yup - you’re right. I to was referring to the belt but my experience was only with the older 169 model where the belt run was less ‘involved’, and tensioned via the alternator mount bolts. The access on the 312/319 model is clearly all biased towards the car being up on a lift, and that was more the point I was trying to make. More and more (or I suppose more accurately, less and less) can be done ‘at home’. For me that’s a real shame.

 

[Phil R]

@Herts Hillhopper I don't want to be a bore but I think the original post was alternator belt replacement (serpentine belt). If this is the case then I think its probably best done by accessing the tensioner via the drivers side (RHD) wheel arch and using a spanner or socket to rotate the tensioner against the spring in time honoured fashion to slacken the belt to allow removal (there will be YouTube vids I'm sure(?)). Take care to get the belt correctly aligned with all the pulleys and their grooves. @Phil R Not sure if we are talking TA or MJ here?

Thanks for the help
It is a Twin Air

 

[kavinsanders87]

Dampers and springs are any easy job. Dampers are a 4 bolt job. Top and bottom each side. Once the dampers are off the springs merely lift out. Worst case you may have to push the swinging arm down to make a bit more clearance. Photo the position of the bits before you start. Springs need to be rotated so the ends sit in the right place at the bottom. Put the rubber spring pads on before fitting to the car. Fit the dampers and part tighten the bottom bolts. Put the car on the ground before fully tightening the lower bolts. This means that the car is at rest, when you tighten the bolts. This means there is less subsequent stress on the rubber bushes as the suspension moves, and this may help the life of those bushes which are the thing that seems to fail first. I have tried various types and rate Monro gas filled very highly on a cost effectiveness basis. OE equipment for thePanda 169 were Monro. Bilstein are also excellent but I have had trouble with the wrong sized bolt holes on 1 pair. Bilstein should carry a lifetime warranty and say after 100,000 miles they will still be performing at 98% of original performance.

I have never done a belt but someone here will be along directly to advise I am sure.

Hi, thank you for the full explanation,
I have a 1.3 dielsel 4x4 panda 312, 312pxl2a p6b version.

I head that the monroe are good springs and shock absorbers , and that the bilstein are more rigid ( in autodoc if I put my oem number the bilstein model that come out is :

BILSTEIN - B4 OE Replacement Shock Absorber
Front Axle Left, Gas Pressure, Twin-Tube, Suspension Strut, Top pin, Bottom Clamp(OEM-Number: 51933591)Article number: 22-265098

it is stated in the specification not for model trekking (do you know what does it means? i think that they are meaning 4x4 ..... which is a bit weird, since fiat game me the oem for my car.

thank you in advance .

 

[The Panda Nut]

Trekking cars are two wheel drive so I suspect the rear suspension will not be the same as the 4x4 even though the ride height may be the same.

4x4 springs may require spring compressors to get the springs out unlike the two wheel drive I was referring to in my earlier post. 4x4 suspension is similar to the two wheel drive cars and I would still tackle the job but the springs are longer and may need to be compressed to remove them.

B4 are gas filled shock absorbers and should do a fine job, You just need to make sure you get the correct part number for a 4x4. If I were buying I would fit Monro as a sound compromise.

 

[kavinsanders87]

Trekking cars are two wheel drive so I suspect the rear suspension will not be the same as the 4x4 even though the ride height may be the same.

4x4 springs may require spring compressors to get the springs out unlike the two wheel drive I was referring to in my earlier post. 4x4 suspension is similar to the two wheel drive cars and I would still tackle the job but the springs are longer and may need to be compressed to remove them.

B4 are gas filled shock absorbers and should do a fine job, You just need to make sure you get the correct part number for a 4x4. If I were buying I would fit Monro as a sound compromise.

thank you, now I remember the trekking is the normal version with the 4x4 body.

I was think to go from bilstein supensions becuase they are good but people told me that they are a lot more rigid. prbalby the car will be better at high speed but less good for uk roads an dcity centre with damaged alsfalt

 

[The Panda Nut]

I bought Bilsteins and they are indeed excellent things, but the bottom eye bolts were the wrong size and I could not stop them rattling all the time so they were changed after a few weeks for Monro which are nearly as good but fit proerply. IOf you buy Bilstein check the bottom eye size is correct for the size of the bottom bolts!! I did not find them harder but the control was really good.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Worth a check carefully here: as well as being different for 2 or 4 wheel drive versions, there are I believe different versions of the springs (certainly the fronts) depending on which engine the car has too... the diesel is a lot heavier than the TwinAir.

See here - first listing is for the TwinAir - two different front and two different rear springs. The second listing is for the MulitJet diesel, and a different set of part numbers:

TwinAir: https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=..._IV_(2012_to_)_0.9_TwinAir_Turbo_Coil_Springs

MultiJet: https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=...a_IV_(2012_to_)_1.3_MultiJet_16v_Coil_Springs

 

[kavinsanders87]

I bought Bilsteins and they are indeed excellent things, but the bottom eye bolts were the wrong size and I could not stop them rattling all the time so they were changed after a few weeks for Monro which are nearly as good but fit proerply. IOf you buy Bilstein check the bottom eye size is correct for the size of the bottom bolts!! I did not find them harder but the control was really good.

I understand,

In autodoc I found this : BILSTEIN - B4 OE Replacement 22-265098 Shock Absorber this is an oem product (51933591) which is the number that fiat gave me for my car, they used the licence plate and it should be the right code

if I do not search using the oem number but just the vehicle type adding it manualy it show me this in addtion to the previous one. :

BILSTEIN - B6 Performance 22-265111 Shock Absorber which comes without any oem number.

Did you buy the non oem ?

because if you had the oem it is a very bad thing that bilstein had the wrong size eye bolts. (it is a sing of careless).

 

[kavinsanders87]

Worth a check carefully here: as well as being different for 2 or 4 wheel drive versions, there are I believe different versions of the springs (certainly the fronts) depending on which engine the car has too... the diesel is a lot heavier than the TwinAir.

See here - first listing is for the TwinAir - two different front and two different rear springs. The second listing is for the MulitJet diesel, and a different set of part numbers:

TwinAir: https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=..._IV_(2012_to_)_0.9_TwinAir_Turbo_Coil_Springs

MultiJet: https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=...a_IV_(2012_to_)_1.3_MultiJet_16v_Coil_Springs

thank you for the reply, very much appreciated .

the second link is right they show the 4x4 only (not cross ) the same oem code that fiat gave me.

I do not knoe what is the difference between the cross and the 4x4 but I would go for the more appropriate one.

One of the difference between cross and 4x4 coil springs is the lenght, cross 401 mm and 4x4 396 mm (a difference of 5 mm only).

color codes cross is grey blue yellow the 4x4 is just gry and yellow, (that is why I feel weird about it because the car is very low at the front and the coil springs are marked right. )

I will have the mot the 21 sept, I will ask the garage people to check is the coil springs are ok or broken/faulty.

PS I cleaned the engine rain water easte system.

I noticed one thing, in the previous version of the panda the top nuts that old the shock absorbers are inside the engine, safe from water and rust, in the 2012 version they under the bonnet but under the plastic cover. I think is just bad design.

 

[jrkitching]

I will have the mot the 21 sept, I will ask the garage people to check is the coil springs are ok or broken/faulty.

It shouldn't be necessary to ask. Checking the coil springs is part of the MOT and the vehicle should be failed if a coil spring is broken or defective.

 

[The Panda Nut]

I understand,

In autodoc I found this : BILSTEIN - B4 OE Replacement 22-265098 Shock Absorber this is an oem product (51933591) which is the number that fiat gave me for my car, they used the licence plate and it should be the right code

if I do not search using the oem number but just the vehicle type adding it manualy it show me this in addtion to the previous one. :

BILSTEIN - B6 Performance 22-265111 Shock Absorber which comes without any oem number.

Did you buy the non oem ?

because if you had the oem it is a very bad thing that bilstein had the wrong size eye bolts. (it is a sing of careless).

I couldnt agree more. I was extremely hacked off with them and wont buy their stuff again, good though it may be.. I dont trust them. Mine were standard gas filled OEM equivalents.

 

[kavinsanders87]

I couldnt agree more. I was extremely hacked off with them and wont buy their stuff again, good though it may be.. I dont trust them. Mine were standard gas filled OEM equivalents.

thank you,

I will go for monroe or magneti marelli. since I will be replacing the front one I will go for the back one as well. it will be 100 pounds more
max