Technical Removing Crankbolt 1993 Ducato

[Happysteve]

Hi folks hoping someone has the answer here.
I need to change the cambelt on my Hymer motorhome that has a Ducato base.
Its a 1993 model and just cant find any info on what should be the simple task of locking the flywheel so I can get the crankbolt undone. Later models have a hole near the starter but mine diesnt have this. There is a small hole below the the crank pulley but this is to lock the pully and would not be strong enough to withstand the pressure of getting the bolt undone. Any ideas on this? Thanks.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I have to say right away I'm not familiar with your engine so, thinking "generically", is there a "friendly" garage close to you? If so ask them if they'll slacken it with an air impact wrench. You can then "nip" it up with a power bar tight enough to get you home again and still be able to slacken it with the power bar once you are home. Still leaves you with the problem of tightening it properly when you've finished though I'm afraid. I know of more than one garage which simply tightens them as tight as the air gun will do it but I much prefer to do it properly by torquing and angle tightening.

You might consider removing the starter to gain access to the ring gear I suppose? I agree with you on the hole in the pulley, most unlikely to resist the effort needed to slacken the pulley bolt

Good luck!

 

[Happysteve]

Thanks for the reply, sadly the bolt is close to the chassis so a garage won't get an impact wrench on it without dropping the engine to get beyyer access. The starter is quite easy to get to unlike most parts on this engine so thats quite a good suggestion cheers!.

 

[camionpilot]

Put it in gear , chock the wheels and apply handbrake ..!!

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Put it in gear , chock the wheels and apply handbrake ..!!

Sometimes works, but if the bolt is really tight the clutch will slip before the bolt slackens. Also, if the bolt is tightened by angular displacement rather than with a torque wrench, the crank really needs to be locked or it's turning, however slight, makes it very difficult to judge the angle.

 

[Happysteve]

Yep my fall back plan is to chock the wheels stick it in gear and use a jack on a really large ring spanner that fits the bolt. Failing this will have to drop the engine to get a big socket on it and try my impact gun. Just seems like not having a simple way to lock the flywheel on this model is quite and oversight. Thanks for the suggestions folks.

 

[portland_bill]

Is this a Fiat engine or a Peugeot?

A lot of Peugeot engines have a hole in the engine backplate for a pin that locates into the flywheel. Often very difficult to find in the dark, and sometimes positioned where later changes to other stuff hides it well.

May have to remove the starter, and use a tool that locates into the ring gear teeth. A large screwdriver is probably not a good idea.

On a lot of engines these days, especially Peugeot, the crank pulley for the cambelt is not keyed, only held by the outer pulley being tight. Until you know if yours is, I'd resist getting it loosened elsewhere and then drive it. (Early this year had a lovely time replacing valves on brother's Peugeot 307 for this reason)

An option might be to leave the pulley in place and gently wriggle the belt around it.

A very long time ago, needed to change the cambelt on my Fiat Argenta. (1984 2.0 DOHC) Pulley bolt had been there a very long time, and was not going to budge. Being auto, holding the ring gear on a flex plate, not a heavy flywheel, was worrying, as I could feel it trying to flex.
I found I could wriggle the belt around the bottom pulley, without kinking it or folding it too tight, so never did remove the pulley. However, if there are timing marks on the inner pulley and not on the outer one, that presents another challenge.

Have a look in the downloads section, there might be an eLearn manual for yours. Alternatively, search online for anything about cambelt change, as someone may have posted pics. Sometimes you can get to the data sheets created by the belt manufacturers.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

On a lot of engines these days, especially Peugeot, the crank pulley for the cambelt is not keyed, only held by the outer pulley being tight. Until you know if yours is, I'd resist getting it loosened elsewhere and then drive it. (Early this year had a lovely time replacing valves on brother's Peugeot 307 for this reason)

A very good point PB. My new Ibiza has an unkeyed crank sprocket!

Another possibility is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkeDnSeCEoE but you need to be a person of "steely" determination to try it I think? Of course it doesn't get over the problem of how to lock the engine for retightening.

 

[Communicator]

Happysteve

Except in that it may restrict access under the bonnet, the conversion of your MH is irrelevant in the current context. It would be more helpful if you had included the type of engine fitted, which I will have to presume is a 2.8JTD. Please see welcome message at top of Ducato page.

Have you read Freespirit's guide on changing the 2.8 JTD cambelt, which is available in the downloads section?

I followed Freespirit's guide when replacing the cambelt on my 2006 2.8JTD. I also fabricated a locking plate from a piece of steel flat. As I do not have welding facilities I used a surplus 3/8" UNF high tensile bolt, locked into a tapped hole to form a peg. The peg was filed to an approximate match for the starter ring teeth. Dimensions were obtained by taking a rubbing with a piece of thin card.

Contrary to what you state, it is possible to access the crankshaft bolt with an impact wrench. On my PVC at least, the bolt is not obstructed by the chassis. My old impact wrench which is over 50 years old, was too long, so I purchased a new shorter one. I also purchased a larger torque wrench, and still saved £100+ on the job.

Another useful tool was a 1/2" square drive ratchet wrench, with the handle extended with a piece of light guage tubing. It made turning the engine over to align timing marks, and afterwards to confirm free rotation, much easier.

 

[Happysteve]

Thanks all for info really useful.
Engine is a Fiat 2.5TD. From my research my model sadly seems to require the engine mount to be slackened to get better access to the bolt. Have forund some really useful stuff on previous threads but nothing on locking the flywheel, but some suggestions here seem pretty viable so thanks for this. There was a change to the models only a year or so later where they changed the inside wheel arch to allow full access to the bolt. I had to use a garage last time this was done which is frustrating as have always done all the work on my vehicles but this bolt issue and not having good ramp height beat me. The garage subsequently caused quite a few issues, they didnt fit the covers correctly and the engine squealed with slipping fan belt as well as other problems. That said they never gave me a bill guess they knew they had screwed up.

 

[portland_bill]

A very good point PB. My new Ibiza has an unkeyed crank sprocket!

Another possibility is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkeDnSeCEoE but you need to be a person of "steely" determination to try it I think? Of course it doesn't get over the problem of how to lock the engine for retightening.

Well, that made me cringe. Again, only a 'good' idea if the crank pulley is keyed, otherwise the cambelt pulley will prefer not to turn as soon as the bolt slackens, and you're still on the starter.
This is effectively what caused my brother to bend valves on his Peugeot. He'd left the spanner on the crank bolt, forgot, and tried to start the engine.

Not a good idea to remove the coil lead on electronic ignition systems. The generated spark has to go somewhere, and if not to earth, may fry the elctronics, as many will testify. Better to remove the 12v feed to it.