Technical Recommend me a cam cover gasket

[dac69er]

Tried a few different brands and not had much luck. They all leak after a few miles.

I have tried the correct torque, overdoing it, underdoing it, covering them in gasket sealant and they are all the same.

Any recommendations of brands to use that will actually seal the cam cover?

Thanks

 

[portland_bill]

Which engine?

Neither the FIRE or the pushrod engine are particularly prone to leaks, apart from a slight dampness. Doubtful you can buy a really poor gasket, so the cause needs to be found elsewhere.

1. Are you sure the leak is past the seal? Oil from above, from breather pipe or oil filler, will drop down and creep along the seal point. A filler cap that does not seal effectively will allow oil to escape past it.

2. Can the engine breathe properly? The FIRE engine has a breather from the cam cover to the air filter box. Check the pipe is clean and clear. Over years they can restrict with carbon, like our arteries, but easier to fix. There may well be a little gauze filter in there. Be gentle with it, clean it and replace. It has a long stem to enable it to be held with pliers to remove and reinsert. Don't discard, it is a flame trap, to prevent and flame from the intake setting fire to the sump oil.

3. Is the crankcase pressure too high. Some pressure will escape past the piston rings into the sump. This pressure will be seen and felt if the oil cap is removed with the engine running. With wear to the piston rings, this pressure can become more than the breathing system can handle, and the excess pressure has to go somewhere, causing leaks. Only an engine rebuild will cure that one, sadly.

 

[dac69er]

I had the same issue on the 1.1 fire as I do on my completely rebuilt 1.2 fire.

It seems to get damp along the front edge manifesting mostly in the right corner. If it's left long enough it makes it's way down the head.

It's 100% nothing else other than that gasket leaking as it was assembled spotlessly.

It literally gets damp after about 5 miles driving. It's happened on 2 completely different heads/covers so I am at a loss!?

 

[irishcento]

best gasket to use is made by a company 'elring' made in germany,super quality but pricey.

i use them on my push rod and fire engined cars,rarely leak.

you can also try payen or victor reniz,also exellent quality.

the fire engine is a hound for leaking where you mention,always a sheet of oil running down the front.

best of luck

jason irishcento

 

[dac69er]

Have a Victor rienz one on there now and it leaked almost straight away. Probably the worst I have ever used!

Seen the elring ones on ebay, will give that a go next and hope for the best.

 

[lukmek]

Could you post a link for the “elring” on eBay please

 

[dac69er]

Just search 'fiat elring rocker gasket' it's not a rocker cover, but that will bring it up.

 

[LeonL]

try file down the little bumps on the cover

 

[portland_bill]

try file down the little bumps on the cover

NO.

They are there for a reason. Fiat spend lots of time and money on research and development, destroyed by a man with a file.

Go back to all the checks I described above.
Plus, check the head and cover faces are flat. Overtightening can distort the cover. The pips are an attempt to prevent overtightening. The torque setting is quite low.

 

[dac69er]

NO.

They are there for a reason. Fiat spend lots of time and money on research and development, destroyed by a man with a file.

Go back to all the checks I described above.
Plus, check the head and cover faces are flat. Overtightening can distort the cover. The pips are an attempt to prevent overtightening. The torque setting is quite low.

To be fair, fiat don't have the best track record for designing things properly.

As it's common people having issues it does come across as a poor design.

If people have had luck with an elring gasket, I will try that.

I can't honestly see that 2 completely different hard and covers will all have the same issue. It's not leaking from anywhere else.

 

[irishcento]

hi.

so the victor didnt work for you,ive had great results with the reinz.


elring is tops,i am also into bmw's and elring is king with them also,for all gaskets including head gaskets.

ive a 1990 750i v12,did the cover gaskets 9years ago with elring,zero issues,and that engine gets mighty hot and has 14litres of oil in it 47k miles on them.

if elring not work you have a issue with something.

keep us posted

 

[dac69er]

The ones that last the longest have been the £2.99 ebay specials, but even those don't last that long. I thought I would try some different branded ones but they have either been the same or worse. The Victor rienz has been the worst so far, done about 5 miles and It was leaking!

I have ordered an elring one, so will see how that goes.

 

[portland_bill]

To be fair, fiat don't have the best track record for designing things properly.

As it's common people having issues it does come across as a poor design.

It is not common. A few people on here is not an epidemic.
My first FIRE was a 750 Panda, 2 years and 45k miles, never a leak.
Next a 1000 Panda, 88k miles in four years, no leaks.
Then a Seicento 1.1, 48k in 3½ years, no leaks.
Now a Panda 1.2, 8 years, over 35k, no leaks.
But that doesn't prove anything either.

I can't honestly see that 2 completely different hard and covers will all have the same issue. It's not leaking from anywhere else.

Not a clue as to what that means.

If people have had luck with an elring gasket, I will try that.
I have ordered an elring one, so will see how that goes.

You've tried several different gaskets, still suffering leaks. "So it must be the gaskets!" You are just attacking the effect, not the cause. Difficult to understand why you bothered to ask a question if you then ignore any advice given. Makes it really worthwhile trying to help.:bang:

 

[irishcento]

sure let us know how you get on,as mentioned if elring doesnt do the trick there is something up with head/rocker cover mateing areas where gasket sits.


they do weep and leak there is no doubt,but it is a easy cure.

i await the outcome

 

[dac69er]

It is not common. A few people on here is not an epidemic.
My first FIRE was a 750 Panda, 2 years and 45k miles, never a leak.
Next a 1000 Panda, 88k miles in four years, no leaks.
Then a Seicento 1.1, 48k in 3½ years, no leaks.
Now a Panda 1.2, 8 years, over 35k, no leaks.
But that doesn't prove anything either.

Not a clue as to what that means.



You've tried several different gaskets, still suffering leaks. "So it must be the gaskets!" You are just attacking the effect, not the cause. Difficult to understand why you bothered to ask a question if you then ignore any advice given. Makes it really worthwhile trying to help.:bang:

I meant i have had the same problem with different heads and covers, stupid phone auto correct changed it.

What additional advice can I follow that I havnt already replied in relation to? The engine is a completely spotless rebuild. I have spent over £2k on the engine and I have a leaky gasket issue. It cannot come from above as it is the highest point in the engine. That the oil can come from. Around the filler is fine, it has a new cap that fits tight. The breather pipe is also new and there is no oil from around that. It's the front edge, along the gasket that is oily.

Some gaskets have been better than others, but having to change them this often seems excessive.
Hence asking to see if anyone has had any luck with a different brand to the ones I have used.

 

[Brooky]

2grand on the engine? What have you done to it?

Check the cover is flat and check the mating face on the head is flat and free from any big marks.

I've bought a few engines with leaky cam cover gaskets but it's always been sorted with a new gasket and Hylomar....I never paid any attention to the gaskets I fitted.

Are you letting any sealant set before running?
Some people recommend loosely assembling with an instant gasket, letting it go off then tightening it up

 

[dac69er]

The machine work cost about £800, then once you buy all new parts like rings, bearings gaskets etc, it all mounts up. Cost a bloody fortune. I just changed everything for new whilst I was at it.

Had the bottom end lightened and balanced. Hone and decked block, new core plugs, head rebuilt and skimmed etc etc. Nothing huge, but it all mounts up.

Not a huge fan of hylomar. I used sump gasket sealant. It seals the sump fine, but doesn't seem to want to seal the cam cover. I left it a couple of days to cure before using.
I havnt tried it on this head and cover as if it doesn't work, it's a nightmare to clean off.

Will see how the new gasket goes. Mating faces are pretty much perfect.

 

[portland_bill]

There is no pressure behind this gasket to cause the oil to leak out. Any crankcase pressure should be low, and this should be exhausted through the breather. If a gasket shows a leak, it should only be a slight moistness over a long period.

If your gasket is leaking significantly, either there is excess pressure inside, or the faces are not flat. The gasket is not the cause.

If the piston rings do not seal properly, there will be excess crankcase pressure. With the bores honed and new rings fitted, there is scope there for problems, or they may not have bedded in properly yet. If not run in properly, the bores can become polished, and the rings will never seal properly. So you must not assume that spending 2k will guarantee no issues. It should be checked. A simple compression test, first dry, then wet, may give a clue. Post the readings here.

I suggested you check the breather pipe, and see if there was a flame trap gauze. You've not answered that one.

Or you can continue to replace gaskets weekly.

 

[dac69er]

I've rebuilt loads of engines, so it's done properly.

I had the same issue before on the old 1.1 engine. This had a different head and cover.

The pressure from the breather is as expected.

It has no flame trap in this particular cam cover.

I currently have the cover off waiting for the new gasket so I will have to do a compression test after it is refitted. It doesn't build up any pressure if you block the breather, it runs well and doesn't smoke so I'm not expecting it to be an issue.

 

[dac69er]

New gasket came today. Quality is great and it fits better than any of the gaskets I have used so far.

Just waiting on some oil and I can start using the car again and see if the gasket does the job this time.