Technical Rear suspension springs' mounting plates repair

[Pandani]

After being out of action for the last seven weeks and before I return to work I'm now wanting to get moving with Pandani's restoration. There's not much needing done except replacement of the rear suspension for the MOT in order to get it road legal again.

I had bought a new axle and dampers etc. about six months' ago and now have the remaining parts on order which should be here next week ready for my mechanic to replace. However, my he is reluctant to carry out the work until I can also obtain the piece of bent steel that is welded to the side of floor pan's box section, onto which the top of the spring and rubber cup is secured. The spring and its cup only cover about half of the the box section's underside and the remaining half of the spring and cup are supported by a piece of folded steel (a strip made up of 45° bends and approx 6" to 9" long) and it's this that needs replaced due to rot. I have looked at ePER and can't see the section of steel I'm referring to but I have suggested that we just replace it with a section of angle iron as it most likely is just part of floor pan and won't be available as a separate part, but he still is a bit reluctant.

Has anyone else had to replace this small section of steel and if so how?

I've tried about 15 times to upload photos but it just isn't working for me.

 

[kolza]

is this what you mean? Bottom part of the rear leg.

 

[Pandani]

I really need to upload the photo I've got but it won't let me do it.:bang:

Anyway, in Kolza's the photo, the piece of bent steel I'm talking about would sit to the left hand side of the box section at where the top of the spring is seated. As the spring's seating base overhangs the steel box section, the piece of bent steel (that I need to replace) is located between the overhanging section of the spring and the underside of the floorpan.

I really need to get the photos to upload.

 

[Pandani]

Finally got the pictures uploaded.

The photo below shows a red pen used as a pointer to indicate the piece of bent steel that needs to be replaced, it sits between almost half of the top of the spring (items 8 and 9 in ePER image) and the underside of the floorpan and is welded to the side of the box section that the other half of the spring sits against (again items 8 and 9 in ePER).

These two photos (below) show a clearer image of the location of one of the bent steel strips in question, it can be seen how much rot has set into parts of it it leaving only half the contact area of the spring being properly supported by the box section only.

These two photos (below) show the bent steel strip with its 45 degree bends and its welded position to the side of the box section. Also it can be seen how the box section supports half of the spring's contact area whilst the bent steel strip only supports just under half of the contact area.

I got this piece of 50 x 50 angle iron today and intend to cut it down in to two 18cm lengths to use as replacements for the rotten steel strips. My mechanic is still a bit reluctant as he originally wanted me to obtain original Fiat replacements or something similar, however I think the angle iron idea is just as good and would like to know if anyone else has had to replace the same section of steel and what they did?


I've already got or I'm awaiting delivery of ePER items 1,7,8,9,10 and 11 (basically entire new springs and assembly along with a new Omega axle) and once I get the angle iron pieces cut to shape I intend to have the whole lot fitted next week. However my Mechanic is also concerned as to how the top of the springs are secured to the box section and new angle iron pieces using ePER items 8 ('insulating ring') and 9 ('plate'). Is there any locating lugs or slots on the box section's underside or the rotten bent steel strip (being replaced with angle iron) that aren't visible until the springs are removed? Basically have I got everything I need? I don't want him to strip it down and then discover something else to delay the work. I thought this would have been a simple job and can't see what is wrong with my angle iron idea.

 

[kolza]

Few observations:
1. change you mechanics,
2. make sure there is solid metal on the rear leg box section as it looks crusty all around,
3. piece of angle iron is not the best repair method, you Mechanic will struggle to weld that in place with high risk of multiple holes being burned through as you got piece of cold rolled 5mm thick steel which you;re trying melt and weld on pretty crusty box section made from +/- 3mm mild steel.

The whole top cup and piece of box section needs to be reinforced and that bend metal shape can be fabricated from flat sheet.

If it is on budget, wire brush whole area, smooth out the edges, apply thick paint and go for MOT else where.

 

[panda1408]

I agree with Jacob on this one. It's more than likely the chassis rails will need repair also. The spring seat is welded to the chassis rail and the panel you are after. It will be quite a complex job to repair correctly and if you mechanic isn't willing to do fabrication work then he's probably not the best person for the job if you want it doing properly.

Generally you will struggle to get any under body panel sections, your options are either to fabricate from sheet steel or cut from another car. The chassis rails are at most 1.5mm, so as has been said welding 5mm angle iron to them is not the easiest job and is pretty overkill!

 

[Pandani]

Thankyou to both kolza and panda1408, I'm really glad I asked the question; I've now got a few more.

It really opened my eyes to realise that welding the 5mm thick angle iron could create holes in the box section; shows you what little I know. Would a section of angle iron 2mm thick be a better option and so easier to weld, or must I really replicate the shape of the existing?

Is item 9 ("plate") on the ePER image and as shown below, the spring seat that's welded to the chassis rail/box section and the bent steel piece I'm replacing? Or is it something else that I'll need to obtain as I can't see anything else in the ePER that would serve that purpose? I can't figure out how else the spring's top is secured to the box section/chassis rails.


I take note of your reference to the condition the the box section/chassis rails. I think the photos make it look worse than it really is but I'm prepared for discovering that repairs will be required.

My Mechanic's garage is owned by a man I've known for 20 years who now is in bad health and has handed the management to a younger guy who doesn't quite do things maybe the same way I'd expect. I may well have to change garage. He won't do the MOT, just the work for it as N. Ireland MOTs are carried out at government operated test centres only and not approved private garages as in GB.

My problem is I've not the equipment and skills at home for this kind of work and have to get it done by others who have limited time for the car to be on a ramp, so I need to make sure I've all the necessary parts at the ready.

 

[Giacosa]

Thankyou to both kolza and panda1408, I'm really glad I asked the question; I've now got a few more.

It really opened my eyes to realise that welding the 5mm thick angle iron could create holes in the box section; shows you what little I know. Would a section of angle iron 2mm thick be a better option and so easier to weld, or must I really replicate the shape of the existing?

Is item 9 ("plate") on the ePER image and as shown below, the spring seat that's welded to the chassis rail/box section and the bent steel piece I'm replacing? Or is it something else that I'll need to obtain as I can't see anything else in the ePER that would serve that purpose? I can't figure out how else the spring's top is secured to the box section/chassis rails.
View attachment 179240

I take note of your reference to the condition the the box section/chassis rails. I think the photos make it look worse than it really is but I'm prepared for discovering that repairs will be required.

My Mechanic's garage is owned by a man I've known for 20 years who now is in bad health and has handed the management to a younger guy who doesn't quite do things maybe the same way I'd expect. I may well have to change garage. He won't do the MOT, just the work for it as N. Ireland MOTs are carried out at government operated test centres only and not approved private garages as in GB.

My problem is I've not the equipment and skills at home for this kind of work and have to get it done by others who have limited time for the car to be on a ramp, so I need to make sure I've all the necessary parts at the ready.

It is indeed item 9 but its just a steel insert that fits between the top of the coil spring and its rubber mount. It doesn't weld to anything and id guess its purpose is to spread the load of the spring evenly. You will already have one on each rear coil spring but they are not usually obvious as they get dirty rusty very rapidly.

 

[Pandani]

It is indeed item 9 but its just a steel insert that fits between the top of the coil spring and its rubber mount. It doesn't weld to anything and id guess its purpose is to spread the load of the spring evenly. You will already have one on each rear coil spring but they are not usually obvious as they get dirty rusty very rapidly.

If item 9 isn't welded to anything then what prevents the top of the spring from sliding about against the chassis rail/box section?

 

[Giacosa]

If item 9 isn't welded to anything then what prevents the top of the spring from sliding about against the chassis rail/box section?

That would be what this is for.

 

[Pandani]

That would be what this is for.

Great, now I see how it all goes together; easy when you know how. I don't suppose anyone knows where a pair of these can be sourced as I didn't see them on ePER? No doubt mine will be rotten once they're exposed and as mentioned by others, getting original underbody panels and pieces of steel work will be impossible.

 

[Giacosa]

I'd be suprised if yours are that bad. Its the exposed metal around them that fails not the seats themselves. Your never going to get welded on components like that from Fiat. You'd have to buy a complete bodyshell.

Fabrication is the only way or as Freddy said cut out of a better scrap car.

 

[Pandani]

I'd be suprised if yours are that bad. Its the exposed metal around them that fails not the seats themselves. Your never going to get welded on components like that from Fiat. You'd have to buy a complete bodyshell.

Fabrication is the only way or as Freddy said cut out of a better scrap car.

Cheers for the advice. I think I'll risk it and hope mine are ok once my Mechanic starts the work otherwise it will be something else to hold up proceedings. I knew something had to hold in the top of the springs but until I see it I can't understand how it all comes together.

Thanks to kolza, today I've arranged for new bent steel seats/brackets for above the top of the springs to be made using 2mm steel to replace the existing rotten ones although to a different shape.