General REAR-END SHUNT: Panda 4x4 2016

[AntPDC]

Some apparently demented Clio driver drove into the rear of my stationary Panda at around 15-20 mph. Boot floor crumpled and raised, skid plate lost, plastics crushed etc. Hatch door is still true/properly aligned.

Clio owner's Insurer accept liability and repair cost estimate. No excess being imposed on me. What I don't like is the thought of my almost brand-new Panda (2,800 miles) being "cut and welded". I have no idea what that involves, nor what kind of chassis the Panda has. I'm guessing unibody?

My questions are:

(a) is it ever possible for a repair of this kind to restore the vehicle to its pre-accident condition in terms of safety, structural integrity and appearance?

(b) will it lose resale value because of the accident (presumably one declares the accident history in any future sale)? Should I have that kind of loss paid for by the Clio Insurer?

(c) My Insurers say that the non-Fiat garage repairer will use genuine Fiat parts/paint etc, and thereby NOT void the Warranty. Is this true?

Thoughts? Thanks so much.

 

[jrkitching]

Thoughts?

Condolences. These are exactly the kind of accidents that unfairly penalise innocent drivers, particularly those wanting to keep an undamaged car for the long term.

What I don't like is the thought of my almost brand-new Panda (2,800 miles) being "cut and welded".

I wouldn't like it either, but unless the other parties insurers are prepared to write the car off, you don't have a lot of choice in the matter.

(a) is it ever possible for a repair of this kind to restore the vehicle to its pre-accident condition in terms of safety, structural integrity and appearance?

IMO no. It will never be the same again, nor will it offer the same level of crash protection.

When you buy a new car, you're trusting your life in an accident to the Euro NCAP process and manufacturer's quality control program. With a structrally repaired vehicle, you're trusting your life to the skills of the technicians in the bodyshop that repaired it.

(b) will it lose resale value because of the accident (presumably one declares the accident history in any future sale)?

Yes. The repair will be readily apparent to anyone who knows what to look for, and most discerning private purchasers will just walk away (why buy a repaired accident damaged car?). The trade will adjust their P/X offer accordingly.

If you bought it on a pcp and return the car, then if the finance company's assessors are not satisfied about the quality of the repair, you could be liable to pay for any rectification they say is needed out of your own pocket.

There is no legal obligation for either yourself or any subsequent seller, trade or otherwise, to volunteer any information regarding the repair unless it is recorded as a total loss by an insurance company.

Should I have that kind of loss paid for by the Clio Insurer?

In an ideal world, yes for sure. In the real world, fat chance. What you will get is an increased insurance premium for the next three years; your own insurers will likely load the policy for having a 'no fault' accident.

(c) My Insurers say that the non-Fiat garage repairer will use genuine Fiat parts/paint etc, and thereby NOT void the Warranty. Is this true?

Only Fiat can answer this one; you need to check with them. I'd expect any paint or corrosion warranty in the affected area would be rendered invalid unless the work was carried out through a franchised dealer. Read the small print of the Fiat corrosion warranty carefully.

The repairers used by the insurance company should, and likely will, offer a similar level of warranty on the repair work and it is this warranty that you would likely have to rely on if you had a problem in the future.

You can choose who to have repair the car - the third party insurers can't insist that you use their approved bodyshop, but you may have to fight for this.

Personally I'd get it fixed and then trade it in at the first reasonable opportunity; you may lose a few pounds, but it'll be someone else's problem and you can move on and put this behind you.

 

[AntPDC]

Thank you very much indeed for your comprehensive response jrkitching. It's really quite remarkable that folk like you take the time and trouble to respond in such a swift and informed manner.

Happy New Year Sir!

 

[g8rpi]

Thank you very much indeed for your comprehensive response jrkitching. It's really quite remarkable that folk like you take the time and trouble to respond in such a swift and informed manner.

Happy New Year Sir!

Hi
jrkitching is completely correct. I would however amplify one point:

You can choose who repairs the car within reason. Within reason includes an OEM approved body shop. There is no way I'd let an insurance repair that included structural or suspension damage be carried out by anyone other than a OEM approved bodyshop. A repair sheet from an OEM body shop will always be better accepted than one form a generic or unknown shop regardless of the actual quality of the different repairs

Robert G8RPI.

 

[AntPDC]

Thank you Robert. Is there any way one can identify an OEM body shop, and its credentials in Fiat's eyes? It was my Insurance company that recommended the shop which is set to do the repairs.

More generally, isn't it a bit of a scandal that some random driver's recklessness can cause the innocent driver to go through all of this bother, and in the end lose money.

I'm definitely not going to conceal that this happened should I decide to sell my damaged/"repaired" Panda, for I'd not want to be responsible for any harm to an unsuspecting buyer were the repair the direct cause of injury or even death - an outcome which would not have occurred had the integrity of the car not previously been compromised. I simply couldn't forgive myself.

 

[g8rpi]

Thank you Robert. Is there any way one can identify an OEM body shop, and its credentials in Fiat's eyes? It was my Insurance company that recommended the shop which is set to do the repairs.

More generally, isn't it a bit of a scandal that some random driver's recklessness can cause the innocent driver to go through all of this bother, and in the end lose money.

I'm definitely not going to conceal that this happened should I decide to sell my damaged/"repaired" Panda, for I'd not want to be responsible for any harm to an unsuspecting buyer were the repair the direct cause of injury or even death - an outcome which would not have occurred had the integrity of the car not previously been compromised. I simply couldn't forgive myself.

Hi,
The OEM is of course Fiat. Call your local main dealer or Fait UK and ask were the nearest approved body shop is. Or do a Goggle search. They should have a certificte from Fiat and the Fiat logo on their paperwork.

Robert G8RPI.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

(a) is it ever possible for a repair of this kind to restore the vehicle to its pre-accident condition in terms of safety, structural integrity and appearance?

Yes, if done correctly using the manufactures specified repair methods.

(b) will it lose resale value because of the accident (presumably one declares the accident history in any future sale)? Should I have that kind of loss paid for by the Clio Insurer?

Its not an overly common claim, but can be claimed an an uninsured loss. Its referred to as Diminution.

You'll need a specialist report from an independent confirming Diminution as a result of the repairs however.

Have you images of the damage out of interest?

(c) My Insurers say that the non-Fiat garage repairer will use genuine Fiat parts/paint etc, and thereby NOT void the Warranty. Is this true?

Thoughts? Thanks so much.

Most repairers will warrant their work for 3 years, or the remainder of any manufactures warranty - which ever is greater. May be worth enquiring into this.

One thing to remember is that insurance approved repairers are all normally kite marked, and as such you should be rest assured that the repairs are being done properly. Have a word with the repairer and they should be more than willing to explain the processes involved.

 

[AntPDC]

I am grateful to you Most Easterly, thank you. I lived in Norwich when I was younger and I loved it, and Norfolk as a whole.

My repairer has the BS Kite-mark, so I feel rather more reassured.

Best wishes.

 

[Michael Dranfield]

once any welding is done it will burn off any primer inside box sections and you will lose the rust proofing element,so no matter how good it looks on the outside it will never be the same again inside.

 

[AntPDC]

Why would the repairers not renew the primer? To save costs? How might I ensure that the primer is renewed to spec? If I find (somehow) that it hasn't, I'll reject the repair outright, on sight.

Thank you.

 

[Michael Dranfield]

When it's inside an enclosed box section.

 

[AntPDC]

You mean it's unavoidable - inevitable in a repair like this?

 

[jrkitching]

You mean it's unavoidable - inevitable in a repair like this?

I've already told you, there's no way a repairer can put your car back to its original condition. The processes and treatments used on the factory floor simply can't be replicated in a bodyshop environment.

A professional repairer will do the best they can to restore it both structurally and cosmetically, within the cost limits applied by the insurance company's assessor. Some work to very high standards indeed and produce a finish of superior quality to the original. As a minimum, any refinished paint should match the rest of the car for the remainder of the paintwork warranty and the car should be stucturally capable of passing an MOT for the remainder of the corrosion warranty.

The car should be returned to you in a safe and presentable condition. But anyone who thinks it'll be as good as it was before is living in la-la land, I'm afraid.

Over a lifetime, I've had this happen four times. None of them came back looking as good as they did pre-accident, all had some minor paintwork issues, misattached trim etc. The first three were company cars, so essentially not my long term problem; the fourth came back initially looking the best of the lot, but wore rear tyres unevenly for the rest of its life and failed an MOT due to corrosion just inboard of the repaired section seven years later.

More generally, isn't it a bit of a scandal that some random driver's recklessness can cause the innocent driver to go through all of this bother, and in the end lose money.

I think it is. It's not fair, but then again, life isn't.

Full restoration by replacing cars like yours with new would push the cost of having an accident to the point where insurance premiums became unaffordable for many.

The best you can do is to drive as defensively as possible. The question to ask is "What could I have done differently on the day to have prevented this accident from happening". Sometimes, there's absolutely nothing; but often there is something you might have done or noticed, even when objectively it's clearly the other driver who is at fault. Your job is to avoid having an accident, in spite of the best efforts of the other drivers around you to cause one.

 

[g8rpi]

I am grateful to you Most Easterly, thank you. I lived in Norwich when I was younger and I loved it, and Norfolk as a whole.

My repairer has the BS Kite-mark, so I feel rather more reassured.

Best wishes.

Don't get me wrong, I did not wish to imply in my earlier comment that a non oem approved repair shop would not do as good a job as an an approved one. Some are certainly better. The issue is that a repair by an approved body shop is likely to be more acceptable to a future purchaser than an un-approved one so will be less reduction in value when you come to sell. As has been said, life is not fair and it's impossible to repair this level of damage to as new. Even if they fitted a new body shell the trim will be looser and paint on doors may not match etc, etc. Best option if you are really worried about it is to trade it in against a new one.

Robert G8RPI.

Robert