Raise Driving Min Age to 21

[ascott92]

No it's not.

Argument = raising the driving age to 21 would take the most high risk group of drivers off the road, thus leaving it a safer place. This certainly isn't to say everyone over 21 is immaculate, you are right, idiocy and incompetence is rife right through the age range, however in my opinion the risk would be far less severe if this rule was applied.

And the people who passed when they were 17 and have experience? Like me. Been on the roads for 2 years and haven't hit a damn thing. Someone like me, and to be fair the majority of young drivers suffer because some idiots don't realise how dangerous what they are doing actually is.

 

[Magic Johnson]

I bet it's not as big a majority as you think it is fella. But I agree, you are suffering financially because of many young fools.

As I said before, your insurance would be a lot cheaper, as would everyone elses if we eliminated this high risk group.

 

[ascott92]

As I said before, your insurance would be a lot cheaper, as would everyone elses if we eliminated this high risk group.

I am in the problem group? Would my license just be revoked? And there is no elimination of the high risk group; the high risk group would just become the 21-25 age group...

 

[Magic Johnson]

No, it would probably come in to effect a few years down the line.

Yes there is. I'm not repeating myself, if you want an answer to that look back in the thread.

 

[jip0]

I think you've all answered your own question.

That worked beautifully.

ah so some of the people that are against your argument are morons

 

[chr1s]

All the OAP stories are people going the wrong way up a motorway (incompitence) and killing others. Yeah these young drivers were stupid (idiocy) but hurt no one else. Hence why I said idiocy is less of a threat than incompitence, and I still stand by my statement of you never seeing young drivers causing crashes like old people. All you've done with these links is prove my point. Thank you.

Just a quick Google:

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/4394543.Brighton_man_dies_driving_car_wrong_way_down_motorway/
27 year old driver driving the wrong way down a motorway kills himself and three in another car.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/miles-erwin/news/article.cfm?a_id=297&objectid=10400612
17 year old driving the wrong way down a motorway puts herself and a taxi driver in hospital, both in a critical condition.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7709210.stm
18 year old driving the wrong way down a motorway, whilst high on cocaine, kills himself, two friends and a couple in another car.

This proves that such accidents are not constrained to elderly drivers.

 

[Magic Johnson]

ah so some of the people that are against your argument are morons

No, there has been some very well constructed fors and againsts.

You and the other two single brain-cell'd organisms however, I can't include in that category.

I'm afraid:

"I'm 17 AN I FREEKIN AWESUM!11!1 No crashz for me! lol!"

doesn't quite cut it.

 

[jip0]

No, there has been some very well constructed fors and againsts.

You and the other two single brain-cell'd organisms however, I can't include in that category.

I'm afraid:

"I'm 17 AN I FREEKIN AWESUM!11!1 No crashz for me! lol!"

doesn't quite cut it.

ah yeah thats exactly what i said

i think you need to get of your high horse to be honest

 

[Magic Johnson]

You said you're 20 and you are a good driver.

That's fine, I didn't specifically say all under-21s are bad drivers.

Statistically, you are more likely to be involved in an accident, fatal or otherwise, than any other age group.

You have to tar with the same brush unfortunately in this case, you can't do it individually (unless driving tests were made ridiculously stringent, which I 100% agree with).

 

[Dominion]

I fail to see incompitence. Yes it is a tragic story, and it is a horrible thing to happen, but again this falls into idiocy. And move the driving age back, this same idiocy would happen later on.

This thread is making me angry. It is singling out young drivers as the sole cause of the problem. Just yesterday I saw an RS4 disappear along a dual carriageway, by the time he was gone and the speed he was still disappearing at, I'd say he was topping 140. He must have been at least 30, but my original point stands...give anyone a car, they can cause as much damage through inexperience. I bet it was a new car for him, so he wanted to try it out, just like young drivers do.

Had the same situation happened in the post you linked with the guy in the RS4, there wouldn't have been half the drama as he wasn't a "young driver." I don't mean this disrespectfully, I mean it as in, the media wouldn't have bit into it quite so much, because unless it's a young driver, its just another accident.

You'll get idiots in every age group; the solution in my eyes isn't to single out any group, it is to educate them before they begin...the driving test is p#ss easy atm, so why not make it harder? And in school I got a talk on road safety; they brought along a car from a fatal crash, and pictures from the scene, along with CCTV of the accident. People cried when the mother of the driver came in and talked, it was heartbreaking. It is the reason why alot of us don't speed. Why not do this to every new driver? That talk will stick with me for the rest of my life, and make me a better driver for it.

Incompetence and idiocy can be very closely linked, i.e. the youth driving the sierra was incompetent of making rational, sensible decisions.

"I don't mean this disrespectfully, I mean it as in, the media wouldn't have bit into it quite so much, because unless it's a young driver, its just another accident."

I disagree with the above. When it's a young person who causes an accident, the media aren't so interested as it's viewed as being inevitable.

"You'll get idiots in every age group"

Spot on.

" And in school I got a talk on road safety; they brought along a car from a fatal crash, and pictures from the scene, along with CCTV of the accident. People cried when the mother of the driver came in and talked, it was heartbreaking. It is the reason why alot of us don't speed. Why not do this to every new driver?"

I agree. I think that's a great idea. Anyone capable of any degree of empathy or compassion would be mentally scarred by such things, which may just cause them to think twice when it mattered most.


I do agree that the majority of young drivers are not idiots etc, and I understand the frustrations that come when they are all tarred with the same brush. On the other hand, I remember having much less of a sense of danger at that age, and not only when driving - I would regularly go freeclimbing for example, and had a number of very near misses. Now, being older and wiser, I would not dream of doing something so daft, and I hope my kids aren't as daft as I was.
The thing with driving is, statistics do not lie, and the statistics show that younger drivers are the greatest risk - and if they are a risk to themselves then they are also a risk to others. However, I personally think that raising the minimum age would be unfair to the vast majority, but education, harsher penalties, more strict probational periods etc would be a better and more fair way to tackle the issue.

 

[pooroldcodger]

This is like one of those equations that I frequently make by accident in Excel - circular. It can't be solved.
There is a danger that what started off as a well-intentioned point (whether you agree with it or not) ends up as a slanging match with insults flying.
I have made my own position clear. I would not support a blanket ban for driving until 21 as I think it would be grossly unfair and damaging economically in many ways.
If heaven forbid one of my family was a victim of a young driver would my view change?
I hope I never have to find out.
But on balance this is where I check out of this debate:
1. Living can be dangerrous. We can't legislate for everything.
2. When I started driving people of all ages used to regularly drive when they couldn't stand up let alone drive straight. This is not so common thank goodness nowadays . (I wasn't one of them before you ask!) The roads and vehicles are safer than they have ever been so it can't all be bad can it?
3. We could easily make the driving test far more stringent and include the effects of bad driving as well as the usual skills. It needs to be far more in depth.Yes it would cost much more, but so be it. Let's also have refresher tests for over 70's.
4. I would like to see far more police on the roads and draconian punishments for reckess and dangerous driving, of ANY age group. At the moment the punishments are simply not tough enough. Take cars off proven bad drivers permanently.
Definitely limit the number of passengers a young driver (to be defined) can carry.
I could go on.
As a foot note, I doubt that the insurance companies would argue for an under 21 ban either. They make a fortune out of them, so everybody else's would go up.

 

[volxstu]

I am in the problem group? Would my license just be revoked? And there is no elimination of the high risk group; the high risk group would just become the 21-25 age group...

No. If the Rule came into effect then you would be able to continue like normal. They would just stop new drivers from obtaining a license. Also it is very likely that the age of learning will be younger than 21.

You may be a perfectly safe and sensible driver. Maybe even the most competent in the world. That doesnt change the fact that you are in the Highest risk group. It doesnt change the fact that Kids can get hold of expensive new cars that cost a bomb to fix when the inevitable dinks and dings happen.
I have a feeling that it would be a very different story here if kids were to drive Bangers like we all had to at 17-18.

 

[pooroldcodger]

Dammit. I said I wouldn't say any more, and I am already!
Recently near where I live a car went off the road on ice at high speed, killing the young driver and one of his passengers. At the inquest his surviving passengers testified that the young lad had been driving like an idiot, had been drinking and smoking pot.
He was driving a nearly brand new expensive car, which turns out he acquired via motability.
This will have had the effect of completely negating the ususal economic limitation that comes in to play, such as buying the car, and the cost of the insurance.
The lad's parents then said that the driving age should be raised to 21.
I feel very sorry for the parents (of both victims). But a lad drinking and on drugs driving a motability car - is that typical of all young drivers? I think not.

 

[sludgeguts]

I fail to see incompitence. .

One definition of incompetence is 'lack of ability' so it is applicable to the young idiots in said scenario. Whilst they have the ability to drive the vehicle (else they wouldn't have passed their test), they are lacking the ability to judge what is and is not safe.

I caught something on the radio this morning, a study comparing the young and old. Two groups performed the same series of tests.
Whilst the older group (over 55) took longer to finish, their results were far better than the under 25s (more correct). It seems that the older group do not want to fail and so will consider & weigh up before making an informed, calculated descision. The younger group, on the other hand want to achieve their objective in the quickest time and so will put down their best guess. It is felt this is due to a form of conditioning brought on by video games etc - don't worry if you lose, simply reset & play again & keep on doing this until you beat every level.

Perhaps this can explain some of what is going on with driving? Certainly he felt he would pass his test after only a couple of lessons as he was brilliant at [insert name of many driving sims]. The reality was that he took longer than he had hoped. his driving style seemed to mirror that in the sims as well - we had a stack of wheels outside, mangled and with damaged tyres - all from where he had misjudged speed/braking distances/corners. Of course, by paying for the repars (smashed track rod ends, springs, etc) he learned the hard way. Now I admit that the same cannot be said of all young drivers - however, I have noticed some seem to get caught up in the moment.

 

[dombooth]

No, there has been some very well constructed fors and againsts.

You and the other two single brain-cell'd organisms however, I can't include in that category.

I'm afraid:

"I'm 17 AN I FREEKIN AWESUM!11!1 No crashz for me! lol!"

doesn't quite cut it.

When did I say that?

ah yeah thats exactly what i said

i think you need to get of your high horse to be honest

:yeah that:

Dom

 

[Magic Johnson]

pooroldcodger do you live in fife?

 

[Gaz37]

And there is no elimination of the high risk group; the high risk group would just become the 21-25 age group...

Spot on

This is why the idea is unworkable, at what point is the line drawn?

If we keep removing the highest risk groups from the road we would end up with with very empty roads, I'm guessing that we would be left with 30-50 year old, diesel Honda Jazz drivers with three kids living in rural Surrey.

The Govt would be bankrupt due to the loss of fuel tax, road tax, insurance premium tax etc

 

[pooroldcodger]

pooroldcodger do you live in fife?

No sir. England.

 

[Magic Johnson]

No sir. England.

Ah, there was an incident in Fife not that long ago that word for word is exactly the same as the one you described.

 

[jimboy]

Just back from holiday after a few days & I'm a wee bit surprised how personal & random this thread has become. I wasn't going to comment again, but hey ho I will agree that threads like these are hard to keep on track, but you could look for any story on the net for any age group, this proves nothing more that indeed young & old drivers are having accidents Very old geezers "some" are causing serious accidents,no surprises there either.

Getting back to the OP, in all seriousness, the government wouldn't give the 21 min' age a second thought because of the revenue they would loose for starters, so what ever your opinions this aint going to happen. Now I have no doubt that there are competent young drivers that frequent this forum, but it's a bit disconcerting how some of the young team feel the need to point out the fact they are indeed really good drivers.

Just to add, some years ago I was sat next to a top cop (traffic division,) at a sportsman's dinner, any way, chatting away & the subject comes up.....What makes for a good driver . He told me quite simply, someone who doesn't impede/interfere or affect another driver on the road.