Thanks! In about 2 hrs I'll know if the car I'm bidding on to be my racecar for next year is successful or not. If I win the auction then the real madness starts.
Quaife ATB/LSD for Cinq/Sei,GP,Panda...
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Quaife ATB/LSD for Cinq/Sei,GP,Panda...
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Thanks! In about 2 hrs I'll know if the car I'm bidding on to be my racecar for next year is successful or not. If I win the auction then the real madness starts.
Hello
I drive a custommade "PhantomGrip" in my Cento o Racetrack. It´s better than without. But i think a Quaife ist better:worship:
Greets Roland
I drive a custommade "PhantomGrip" in my Cento o Racetrack. It´s better than without. But i think a Quaife ist better:worship:
Greets Roland
I contacted Quaife about this LSD. They still have them in stock Price is 770GBP including VAT.
Anyone tried Phantom Grip on these cars ?
I bought a Seicento race car 2 days ago, and I'l like to install some sort of LSD into it for next years autox events.
I have just received the parts necessary to fit my LSD. I bought new bearings and speedo gear and placed into the gearbox case without any shim. I set up the box as in the picture. It is flat on the bench with a dial gauge mounted separately on a mag base placed on the diff. I have then moved the diff vertically as indicated by the arrow to determine the play. This is 1.65mm. By adding the 0.12mm preload I get a shim size of 1.77mm. 1.75mm is the smallest shim you can buy, which makes me a little nervous.
How sound is my measurement theory? What shim thickness have others come up with?
RSVP: I want to order the shim and try this thing out ASAP!
How sound is my measurement theory? What shim thickness have others come up with?
RSVP: I want to order the shim and try this thing out ASAP!
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Well done for doing it properly
I haven't fitted mine yet, done nothing to the car for months!
Just curious what sized shim came out when you dissasembled it?
The alfa doc shows the two measurement, have you made them both? Looking at it though, that will lower the shim thickness even further.
Kristian
I haven't fitted mine yet, done nothing to the car for months!
Just curious what sized shim came out when you dissasembled it?
The alfa doc shows the two measurement, have you made them both? Looking at it though, that will lower the shim thickness even further.
Kristian
I didn't do what the Alfa doc said. I interpreted the purpose of the measurements and did it the way I described above. Perhaps I am wrong, but the purpose of the shim as I see it is to eliminate end float and then apply a small pre-load. I don't have the tools to do the measurements properly really and am trying to do the best with what I have.
The shim already in the box was 2.35mm, with 3.00mm being the biggest you can get.
The shim already in the box was 2.35mm, with 3.00mm being the biggest you can get.
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'fraid im not sure what to say. Are the old bearings on the old diff still? What the diffence between the length of the old bearing faces compred to the new?
Measuring that should verify if your measurements are correct.
KRistian
Measuring that should verify if your measurements are correct.
KRistian
I think you are right, but how does one measure the height of something without proper a measuring device like a Vernier height gauge for example? I think the next port of call will be to put the old diff (bearings still on it) back in and make my measurements to see if I arrive at the 2.35mm shim, assuming FIAT got it right! Might do it later, but I'm frozen at the moment due to being out there all day doing a load of things to the Panda whilst gearbox is out.
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Use your dial gauge to measure a relative difference between the two. Place one under the gauge, zero it, and then place the other under the same gauge?
Your idea also sound fine.
Good luck with it and keep updated
edit. also bear in mind the crown wheel engaged when bolted together may limit movement of the diff when taking measurements as well.
Your idea also sound fine.
Good luck with it and keep updated
edit. also bear in mind the crown wheel engaged when bolted together may limit movement of the diff when taking measurements as well.
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Before I went to bed without sleeping whilst I thought about this, I thought I better just do it now, so snuck out to garage.
The photo above with the dial gauge is a little inaccurate as it obviously does not show the seal cap on, which was bolted down as it would be in situ. It is the distance between the bottom of this cap and the top of the bearing case that I am trying to measure.
Put the old diff back in and measured the movement as 1.96mm. Adding the 0.12mm preload this makes 2.08mm, with the best choice from FIAT being 2.10mm. The current shim is 2.35mm.
New diff measured 1.85mm which makes 1.97mm, a 2.00mm shim.
I removed the diff and re-measured both diffs again with the same result. So glad I bought an electric wrench last weekend with all the bolting and unbolting I just did.
My questions then:
Do I trust my science and say that FIAT used a slightly too big a shim or that wear has changed the values in the 9000 miles the diff has done?
Perhaps the 0.12mm preload is not accurate for this diff?
Perhaps I should take the relative difference of the two calculated required shims of 0.1mm, ignore other factors and get a shim that is 0.1mm thinner than the current 2.35mm one.
The photo above with the dial gauge is a little inaccurate as it obviously does not show the seal cap on, which was bolted down as it would be in situ. It is the distance between the bottom of this cap and the top of the bearing case that I am trying to measure.
You're so ruddy right! It was restricting movement!
Put the old diff back in and measured the movement as 1.96mm. Adding the 0.12mm preload this makes 2.08mm, with the best choice from FIAT being 2.10mm. The current shim is 2.35mm.
New diff measured 1.85mm which makes 1.97mm, a 2.00mm shim.
I removed the diff and re-measured both diffs again with the same result. So glad I bought an electric wrench last weekend with all the bolting and unbolting I just did.
My questions then:
Do I trust my science and say that FIAT used a slightly too big a shim or that wear has changed the values in the 9000 miles the diff has done?
Perhaps the 0.12mm preload is not accurate for this diff?
Perhaps I should take the relative difference of the two calculated required shims of 0.1mm, ignore other factors and get a shim that is 0.1mm thinner than the current 2.35mm one.
Well, I went with the last option. Fitting on Wednesday.
FIAT part numbers and prices for 5-speed box (see diagram below)
(2) <various> Shim £2.65
(3) 40004630 Seal ~£5.50
(4) 40004620 Seal ~£5.50
(5) 7667783 Bearing £13.30
(6) 7667784 Bearing £15.57
(14) 7669553 Speedo Gear £2.86
Note: (15) looks like a shim in the diagram, but is an "O" ring seal that goes in the seal cap (16)
FIAT part numbers and prices for 5-speed box (see diagram below)
(2) <various> Shim £2.65
(3) 40004630 Seal ~£5.50
(4) 40004620 Seal ~£5.50
(5) 7667783 Bearing £13.30
(6) 7667784 Bearing £15.57
(14) 7669553 Speedo Gear £2.86
Note: (15) looks like a shim in the diagram, but is an "O" ring seal that goes in the seal cap (16)
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There's now on ein the classifieds if anyones interested.
Kristian
Kristian
It's ATB weather people.
This diff rocks in snow. We've had a foot of it in the last few hours. I got off the M1 and drove up, down and around stranded cars of all descriptions. You can feel it sniffing out the grip. It was awesome. Last year in the snow the 500 lived several streets down the hill from us. Tonight she zipped right up to the drive.
This diff rocks in snow. We've had a foot of it in the last few hours. I got off the M1 and drove up, down and around stranded cars of all descriptions. You can feel it sniffing out the grip. It was awesome. Last year in the snow the 500 lived several streets down the hill from us. Tonight she zipped right up to the drive.
Interesting! No snow here yet.
I just finished fitting mine a few hours ago. Had a quick drive to check all was well, but have yet to explore grip. Steering is quite a lot heavier. I now have pretty serious torque steer where previously there was none. Testament to the grip I now have. Just booting it in a straight line reveals a huge launch speed difference, if you can wrestle it! Booting out of a junction will take some getting used to- it is pretty difficult to straighten the wheel in time as it just wants to go!
I just finished fitting mine a few hours ago. Had a quick drive to check all was well, but have yet to explore grip. Steering is quite a lot heavier. I now have pretty serious torque steer where previously there was none. Testament to the grip I now have. Just booting it in a straight line reveals a huge launch speed difference, if you can wrestle it! Booting out of a junction will take some getting used to- it is pretty difficult to straighten the wheel in time as it just wants to go!
What car have you installed it into? In the 500 the steering was comically light to begin with and the quaife has given a decent weight and response. The torque steer is more pronounced but not insanely so on mine. You get used to it. The thing that gets me is accelerating quick out of a side street. Both wheels grab and suddenly you're aware of how much steering lock is wound on you have to grab it before you mount the footpath
Very interesting to read your findings.
Emma's FTO which is FWD with LSD was amazing in the snow in Feb, and in fact it was great this morning as well, yet again she was first to work when there's snow on the ground, getting there with ease.
The 500 1.4 was terrible in the snow, very poor as many new cars are with open diffs and traction control that does nothing more than close the throttle.
We are probably going to pop over to Silverstone later in the 500Abarth and see how its electric mimic diff works, should be better than nothing as it works by braking the spinning wheel rather than cut the power.
Emma's FTO which is FWD with LSD was amazing in the snow in Feb, and in fact it was great this morning as well, yet again she was first to work when there's snow on the ground, getting there with ease.
The 500 1.4 was terrible in the snow, very poor as many new cars are with open diffs and traction control that does nothing more than close the throttle.
We are probably going to pop over to Silverstone later in the 500Abarth and see how its electric mimic diff works, should be better than nothing as it works by braking the spinning wheel rather than cut the power.
I've put the diff in my Panda with Punto engine and running gear (sig). No power steering means it is about right as standard for those that want to feel the road. I'm now a notch heavier than that.
The thing that gets me is accelerating quick out of a side street. Both wheels grab and suddenly you're aware of how much steering lock is wound on you have to grab it before you mount the footpath
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Total change of expectations required! Have been on other side of road more than once when trying a bit of gas, need to be careful!
Given that my crownwheel sounds like it will be bonded in an 03 Seicento 5 speed gearbox, as far as I know I need to get hold of the same parts (but specifically for the Sei?) as Lewey but with the addition of :
46753068 - RING GEAR (Part 5 in the "Diff Pic")
Availability: - Product orderable
Further Description - RAPP 57/16
Family: BB05 - CROWN GEAR
Listed price: 90.59 GBP
Weight (grams): 1400
Price including taxes: 106.44 GBP
As shown in the pic (taken from an 04 copy of the ePer).
I've just finished putting the parts from my old car onto the new one so now I want to get my arse into gear, having just moved house I've still not been able to get my spare gearbox apart yet - Gotta' check the availability sometime soon & then find out where I can get it fitted.
Assuming I'm guessing right, which of the parts drives the crownwheel from the "drive pic"?
46753068 - RING GEAR (Part 5 in the "Diff Pic")
Availability: - Product orderable
Further Description - RAPP 57/16
Family: BB05 - CROWN GEAR
Listed price: 90.59 GBP
Weight (grams): 1400
Price including taxes: 106.44 GBP
As shown in the pic (taken from an 04 copy of the ePer).
I've just finished putting the parts from my old car onto the new one so now I want to get my arse into gear, having just moved house I've still not been able to get my spare gearbox apart yet - Gotta' check the availability sometime soon & then find out where I can get it fitted.
Assuming I'm guessing right, which of the parts drives the crownwheel from the "drive pic"?
The pinion is number 8 on your picture. FIAT's prices (along with others) have shot up. I have v39 of ePer where that ring gear is £150. I would guess it is £170+ now. The pinion will be about £70. Replacement of the pinion will require opening up the main box too, which is inevitably gonna take time and money at a transmission place. Worth a look at what you've got. My crownwheel was bolted and the box was made in March 2003, although I appreciate that it being Punto may be a factor in the lottery. Only a few bolts on the diff casing and oil drain to find out. You could re-use the oil even!
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I know I still have to get the box completely open to make sure but at least I know where I stand, fingers crossed it'll be bolted but isn't sounding likely.
Thanks for confirming which bits I'd need, ballache that the costs are rising but having to pay out isn't so bad in comparison with stripping my old car & swapping all my upgraded parts onto a new shell!!!
Getting the Diff fitted will be great 'cos it'll be the 1st improvement over the old car which was written off in June.
Thanks for confirming which bits I'd need, ballache that the costs are rising but having to pay out isn't so bad in comparison with stripping my old car & swapping all my upgraded parts onto a new shell!!!
Getting the Diff fitted will be great 'cos it'll be the 1st improvement over the old car which was written off in June.
Would this still be an option any time soon if I get hold of the correct parts - the box will be a 40K one which I already have out (and will check the crownwheel) out of my old car.
I guess I'd be daft to risk just buying the crownwheel without replacing the gear it matches to in case the wear makes it noisy?
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