Technical Punto power steering solution confusion!

Currently reading:
Technical Punto power steering solution confusion!

ccyc87

New member
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
8
Hello to all!

So recently I've had problems with my power steering, got it diagnosed, got told whole column needs changing (surprise surprise) anyway not wanting to shell out the extortionate £700+ to Fiat, I bought a reconditioned unit via recommendation from bba-reman. (they give a 2 year warranty too so thats why i feel they can be trusted)

I got the column fitted by an external local garage who warned me that fitting it isnt a problem for them but whether or not it'll fix the problem is another thing as they suggested that it might need calibration from Fiat afterwards which I'd have to get done from fiat themselves.

Anyway, works out that i'm stil having problems with the power steering turning off at random times. Here's where i'm not confused.

https://www.fiatforum.com/punto-guides/70703-punto-steering-column.html

that says:
When a new or secondhand column is fitted it must be calibrated by a Fiat dealer there is a small charge for this and therefore must be taken into consideration when buying secondhand.Likewise if the steering ecu itself is faulty this must also be calibrated by a Fiat dealer.

so i thought okie dokie off to Fiat i go. Get there, and they say:

'Er, no mate, if its a complete non-faulty column then it shouldn't need calibrating and if we took your car in then we'd be charging u £40 for no reason. Rather not just take your money and not help the situation.'

So now i'm completely puzzled!? To reinforce what Fiat said to me about calibration I called bba-reman and the technical man also said:

'Yea fiat is correct, its just a straight swap, shouldnt need calibrating. If you like we'll send you another reconditioned unit free of charge and u can replace it again if u want?'

I told them i'd wait a bit before having another unit sent to me because I'd like to clarify what i need to do.

So do i need to get it calibrated or do i just need to get another unit sent to me?!?! :confused:

Thanks
Chun
 

The Sultan

Bravo 1.8 HLX FTW
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Messages
4,217
Location
lake windermere east edge
hi and welcome to the forum


calibrating the coloum tells the steering ecu exactly were centre is this is required if you replace the coloum only and re use the motor and ecu

if you replace the hole lot as one unit it should already know were centre is howether at work from my experience this is often not the case and in the past i have had to re calibrate these steering systems when fitted brand new from fiat

if you replace the coloum as a hole from a second hand car it's likely it will be calibrated as it's already been on a car so will have been calibrated as such when the car was built

if the car does not know were centre is it will pull one way or the other
the time were you notice this the most is when reversing with city on it will wind the lock from one way to the other without your input but not from their back the other way if you know what i mean

so my advice is no matter what you have had done pay to have it calibrated and if they tell you there's no point just ask them to check it also if your still having problems they will be able to tell you your error codes wile they are looking at it

now to your main question

what kind of problems are you having with it at the moment

can you give some idea of what and when it's happening

also what speck is your car does it have abs

if the steering is not calibrated it can give error messages when at full lock as it will think your turning more than it's supost to

also if you have a sporting with electronic stability program it could cause you to crash depending on how far out it is

were the problems your having the same as before or are they different in any way
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
C

ccyc87

New member
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
8
Hiya littlepip17!

Wow! Many thanks for such a detailed answer! It's so much more than I expected, and its great to see you give explanations for all your theories and etc! Great for us mechanically inadept people lol

Ok so to answer your questions:

what kind of problems are you having with it at the moment:
Intermittant switching failure ofthe power steering and the red EPS light comes on in dashboard.

can you give some idea of what and when it's happening:
Basically when i full lock (not always, only sometimes) i will here this sort of 'clunk' noise (not always audible but i ALWAYS feel it happen through the steering wheel as the 'clunk' vibrates through to my hand) and the red light comes. Thats when i turn my car off, start it up again and its back to normal. So its hard to actually try and make it happen when you want to show it to somebody lol once i was in tesco car park trying to show my friend, turned car on, didnt even move the car, just kept locking the wheel from left to right...about 20+ locks later nothing happens, its smooth as ever. Not long afterwards while i'm trying to reverse parallel park the power steering turns off when i full lock!? Intermittant indeed!

also what spec is your car does it have abs:
Punto mk2 Year1999 V reg 1.2 8v. very standard, no abs, no central locking, and it even had the rubbish speedo that had no rev meter or temp gauge )changed that now tho, its got the sporting meters with revs/temp gauge:) )

were the problems your having the same as before or are they different in any way:
Yes, effectively the same problem, BUT it doesnt happen nearly as often as it used to. Before i had the unit changed, 3 out of 5 times i locked the wheel left/right the power steering would fail, its so embarrassing having to turn the car on/off continously to parallel park cos ppl think i'm stalling all the time >< now i can't even measure when it might choose to turn itself off...thats how random it is!

Hope that gives enough information for you to work on!

Many thanks again!
Chun
 
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Messages
2,189
Location
West Yorkshire
yeh, ive fitted a recon unit, and so long as you keep it in the center position while removing, transporting and fitting, no need to calibrate it. If it has been turned 360* either way it will (i dont believe the stops are built into the column, rather the rack.)

with mine i removed it centrally, ensured it couldnt turn while i took it home and installed it without turning it. no problems. just about to do another infact :)
 
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Messages
39,858
Location
Preston
On examiner it asks the operator 'have you changed the EPS control unit' to which it will then carries out a proxy-alignment....remember the EPS is on the CAN network & must be in 'synch' with the body computer.

Fiat tech manual states 'After fitting connect the diagnostic equipment zero the position and torque sensors.Check callibration when stationary and at 12mph'


Recallibration can in itself cure steering faults like you describe.Like 'littlepip' stated I have seen columns fitted without callibration/aligned carried out only to return next day,fault was cured by callibration/proxy.On the other hand as 'xen' said you can sometimes get away with it.

There are also 'connector' issues on the EPS than can be causing your problem.

The column mounting bolts must also be tightened in sequence.

The system also has a 'overheat' protection that can cut in often during parking,driving instructors are aware of this.
 

The Sultan

Bravo 1.8 HLX FTW
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Messages
4,217
Location
lake windermere east edge
well a possibility is the roler top mounts on the suspension have gone so as you near full lock the vibrations coming through the column are upsetting the electric steering

as you have replaced all the electric steering i doubt the new steering would come with the same fault and symptoms

when a roller top mount on the suspension fails it will resist turning and as a result the springs will wind up and then suddenly slip and unwind again I think this is the only thing on the car that could cause such a fault to occur

but first things firs get it calibrated and proxy aligned

t14086 I didn't realise they needed proxy aswell I thought this is only when replacing body and dash units or is it everything on can
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Messages
39,858
Location
Preston
t14086 I didn't realise they needed proxy aswell I thought this is only when replacing body and dash units or is it everything on can

More & more stuff on CAN thesedays...had to proxy a alfa electric window switch other day:rolleyes: Any module/control unit or node should be.
 

The Sultan

Bravo 1.8 HLX FTW
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Messages
4,217
Location
lake windermere east edge
More & more stuff on CAN thesedays...had to proxy a alfa electric window switch other day:rolleyes: Any module/control unit or node should be.

off topic

i replaced a door computer in an alfa the other day because it would not power down after the set time and was running the battery flat over time something to do with it not receiving the shut down from the body computer an also herd about it being a common fault from a mangoletsis tech i met a warington academy

I wonder if a proxy would sort these instead of replacement

from what i have been told the two main ones are dash and body as these are the ones with time clock's in to keep the data timing in order or something

i swear you need a phd in something to fully understand can networks

i have read a little about them from the courses my dad has attended at fiat

the way the controllers decides which signals get priority using the simple binary system and sending receiving at the same time is just ingenious
 
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Messages
39,858
Location
Preston
011001000100111110011100011110011111:D

Good joke that,if you understand binary;)


I always proxy any module/node I replace,the Alfa problem you had...does the mileage flash? You can check this by 'CAN network monitor' on examiner,with ignition off you see body computer powering down after 20-30seconds...if the door module was at fault it would display this after power down.

(get on the CAN course at warrington,think its a 2day course but very informative)(y)
 

The Sultan

Bravo 1.8 HLX FTW
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Messages
4,217
Location
lake windermere east edge
i would love to go on as many courses as posible but it's hard as i'm only an apprentice and my boss is a very short minded guy who does not want to spend any money on simple things like training the people that keep the business going very stupid in my opinion he will only send people when threatened buy fiat

i have just been on a practice electronics course my first at Warrington and found it absolutely excellent my tutor for that 2 day course was a guy called mat watkiss

the mileage was not flashing I understand the milage flashing is an indication of the system requiring proxy alignment

all I found was when the door computer was disconnected the drain nearly 400ma would drop to a more acceptable level somewhere around 17ma iirc

i simply thought it was faulty well I suppose it was but later found out from warington and a mangoletsis tech that it was to do with it staying active

you know there really should be a section on this forum were fiat mechanics can talk and tell other techs about faults they halve come across and just general information that would benefit fiat garages as a hole

i feel a survey coming on to see how many fiat mechanics there are on the forum already

ps. here's a clasic
01110111011010000111100100100000011001000110100101100100001000000111010001101000011001010010000001100011011010000110100101100011011010110110010101101110001000000110001101110010011011110111001101110011001000000111010001101000011001010010000001110010011011110110000101100100
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Messages
39,858
Location
Preston
you know there really should be a section on this forum were fiat mechanics can talk and tell other techs about faults they halve come across and just general information that would benefit fiat garages as a hole

The chatroom;)

Also dont forget the new e-tech online system(y)



ps. here's a clasic
01110111011010000111100100100000011001000110100101100100001000000111010001101000011001010010000001100011011010000110100101100011011010110110010101101110001000000110001101110010011011110111001101110011001000000111010001101000011001010010000001110010011011110110000101100100

Heard that one :D
 
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Messages
2,189
Location
West Yorkshire
01110111011010000111100100100000011001000110100101100100001000000111010001101000011001010010000001100011011010000110100101100011011010110110010101101110001000000110001101110010011011110111001101110011001000000111010001101000011001010010000001110010011011110110000101100100

to get to the otherside?

There are only 10 types of people in the world; Those who understand binary and those who dont.
 
Last edited:
Top