Punto/Panda starter motor

[Cleaver Greene]

Hi all,
I am not new to the forum, but I have recently changed email addresses so Computer says no when looking for me.
However, my daughter has a mk2a Punto, 1.2 8V, a 2000 year car.
The engine was completely knackered. I was offered a 188 engine out of a 2004 Panda, and was assured it would fit.

Not quite true as I found out. The oil pump is different, due to the flywheel position for the crank sensor, so an oil pump swap from the old Punto engine to the Panda engine was needed.
A new clutch, new cam belt, fresh oil. The battery fully charged.
Its all back together and tonight I attempted to start it.
The starter motor is just spinning.
My questions are:
1) Has the Panda flywheel got a different tooth pitch to the Punto flywheel for the starter pinion? (I cant fathom why Fiat would do that, but stranger things have happened.)
2) Does the Panda flywheel sit further away from the block than the Punto (meaning I might need a Panda starter)?
3) Has my starter motor now developed an earthing fault?
3) Something else. Have I annoyed some Pixies?

Kind regards
Jeff

 

[koalar]

Punto grande and panda stater motors are identical

Panda and older puntos have different electrical connector

I fitted a Punto grande into my panda

 

[bugsymike]

Hi all,
I am not new to the forum, but I have recently changed email addresses so Computer says no when looking for me.
However, my daughter has a mk2a Punto, 1.2 8V, a 2000 year car.
The engine was completely knackered. I was offered a 188 engine out of a 2004 Panda, and was assured it would fit.

Not quite true as I found out. The oil pump is different, due to the flywheel position for the crank sensor, so an oil pump swap from the old Punto engine to the Panda engine was needed.
A new clutch, new cam belt, fresh oil. The battery fully charged.
Its all back together and tonight I attempted to start it.
The starter motor is just spinning.
My questions are:
1) Has the Panda flywheel got a different tooth pitch to the Punto flywheel for the starter pinion? (I cant fathom why Fiat would do that, but stranger things have happened.)
2) Does the Panda flywheel sit further away from the block than the Punto (meaning I might need a Panda starter)?
3) Has my starter motor now developed an earthing fault?
3) Something else. Have I annoyed some Pixies?

Kind regards
Jeff

Can you get the starter from the 04 Panda, assuming it has it original flywheel on? Or can you check if they use a different part number, say on eBay for the two different models?
It's not just a case of the starter or the "sprag clutch" bit of the toothed gear stuck? You know if you put your finger on the toothed part of the starter it will freewheel one way and turn the starter shaft the other assuming it isn't too stiff. Sometimes if they are knackered they will freewheel in both directions, but it may only show up under load. Usually by making a sharp ringing noise and sometimes if it is that you can flick the key on and off a few times and it may jerk it into engaging with the flywheel to prove the point.
By the way I assume the pre engage bit of the starter is working, I mean if you test it it should push the gear forward and then spin.
Sorry if I am telling you how to suck eggs, I never know how much knowledge people have.

 

[Cleaver Greene]

Can you get the starter from the 04 Panda, assuming it has it original flywheel on? Or can you check if they use a different part number, say on eBay for the two different models?
It's not just a case of the starter or the "sprag clutch" bit of the toothed gear stuck? You know if you put your finger on the toothed part of the starter it will freewheel one way and turn the starter shaft the other assuming it isn't too stiff. Sometimes if they are knackered they will freewheel in both directions, but it may only show up under load.
By the way I assume the pre engage bit of the starter is working, I mean if you test it it should push the gear forward and then spin.
Sorry if I am telling you how to suck eggs, I never know how much knowledge people have.

Hi Thanks for your reply,
I really appreciate it.
No I cant get the starter from the Panda as it was bought from a scrappers. I left the original Panda flywheel on, as it was a good one, ony having done 47K miles. I could not find a Punto engine, but as I thought (incorrectly) that as it was a 188 engine they were the same. The scrapper assured me that they were, but what do they know right?
From what I have just found out the Punto and Panda starters have the same part number, C132 E80F. So they sould fit either Panda or Punto 188 engines.
I am a bit unhappy that after all the agg swapping the engines out the starter just spins and does not engage.
Right now I cant fathom whats going on.

 

[bugsymike]

Hi Thanks for your reply,
I really appreciate it.
No I cant get the starter from the Panda as it was bought from a scrappers. I left the original Panda flywheel on, as it was a good one, ony having done 47K miles. I could not find a Punto engine, but as I thought (incorrectly) that as it was a 188 engine they were the same. The scrapper assured me that they were, but what do they know right?
From what I have just found out the Punto and Panda starters have the same part number, C132 E80F. So they sould fit either Panda or Punto 188 engines.
I am a bit unhappy that after all the agg swapping the engines out the starter just spins and does not engage.
Right now I cant fathom whats going on.

Try the trick with the key , but you may have to take the starter out to check the rest.

 

[Cleaver Greene]

Try the trick with the key , but you may have to take the starter out to check the rest.

The key trick didnt work, it still just "sounds like" it's spinning. I guess I will have to take it out.

 

[bugsymike]

Afraid so .

 

[Cleaver Greene]

Hi all,
Fixed it.
PITA to get the starter out. It was much easier when all the inlet manifold and all that was out of the way when I took it out previously.
Stripped the starter down, turned out to be a siezed bendix. Full of corrossion. Lots and lots of WD40 on the bendix arm an cleaning it now moves freely.
Starter motor back in the car this morning. My new (old 47K mile) Panda engine, burst into life at the first turn.
So I'm back in business.
Any one need to know how to stip a stater motor down, just ask.
Thanks for all the replies, much appreciated.