Technical Punto brakes issue.

Currently reading:
Technical Punto brakes issue.

Bexyp88

New member
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
4
Points
1
Hi, I have a 1.2 ELX speedgear Punto. Does anybody know about the braking system as my pedal seems very soft when I brake and I have been told it is "soft touch" brakes... So when I'm braking it is slowing the car but it's almost like the brake pedal is touching the floor. (The car has had new discs and pads all round)

Any help is greatly appreciated

Thanks in advance.
 
Hi, I have a 1.2 ELX speedgear Punto. Does anybody know about the braking system as my pedal seems very soft when I brake and I have been told it is "soft touch" brakes... So when I'm braking it is slowing the car but it's almost like the brake pedal is touching the floor. (The car has had new discs and pads all round)

Any help is greatly appreciated

Thanks in advance.

Probably air in the brake fluid. I'd get it changed, should be every 2 years anyway as it absorbs water from the atmosphere which turns to steam then air bubbles.
 
It has been Bled while engine is running and not running which we thought would help because that gets rid of the air out of it but it's still the same. When the engine is off, the brakes feel harder, more like how they should be, But when the engine is running they go as I described.

A friend of mine suggested it could be a Servo issue?
 
Possibly, could also be the Master cylinder.

Press the brake pedal with the engine off...do you need to "pump" the pedal for it to firm up?

Once the pedal is firm, hold your foot hard down on the pedal & start the engine... does it sink just a bit? Or not?
 
Water in brake fluid doesn't turn to steam and then air (turning water to steam requires heat and/or very low pressure, turning steam into air not possible, air being mainly nitrogen and oxygen).

Brake fluid is hygroscopic (absorbs water). The issue is that the water corrodes the internal surfaces of pipes and cylinders.

Air in the system is introduced when replacing hydralulic parts, when the reservoir level gets too low or sometimes through connections on pipes/hoses not being tight enough. The car has had new discs and pads but these of course are not hydraulic parts.

Any sponginess without running the engine is usually air and needs bleeding. Some systems can be hard to bleed effectively.

With pedal depressed then starting the engine, the pedal should go down a bit as the vacuum kicks in.

If the pedal travel is getting near the floor in normal use, that is dangerous and needs sorting urgently.

red.
 
Last edited:
Water in brake fluid doesn't turn to steam and then air (turning water to steam requires heat and/or very low pressure, turning steam into air not possible, air being mainly nitrogen and oxygen).
And what do you think results as a by=product of braking friction...? Heat... lots of it. I stand by my statement "red"
Brake fluid is hygroscopic (absorbs water). The issue is that the water corrodes the internal surfaces of pipes and cylinders. That is NOT the case with copper/nickel brake pipes actually...

Air in the system is introduced when replacing hydralulic parts, when the reservoir level gets too low or sometimes through connections on pipes/hoses not being tight enough. The car has had new discs and pads but these of course are not hydraulic parts.

Any sponginess without running the engine is usually air and needs bleeding. Some systems can be hard to bleed effectively.

With pedal depressed then starting the engine, the pedal should go down a bit as the vacuum kicks in.

If the pedal travel is getting near the floor in normal use, that is dangerous and needs sorting urgently. No kidding? :rolleyes:

red.

Not all of what you say is right, some is... the obvious bits that is!:p
 
Ffoxy,

Yes, I understand the physics of brakes/friction/heat but we are talking microscopic quantities of water emulsified in the hydraulic oil. The brake components are designed to dissipate heat to avoid damage and also so that it doesn't boil the hydraulic oil, never mind vapourising any water molecules.

Anyway, even if there was steam generation, you didn't say how the steam would turn to air. Sure, there's oxygen in water but it doesn't separate from the hydrogen readily, and where's the nitrogen going to come from? As I say, turning steam to air is not possible.

As for copper/nickel pipes, yes, this should reduce corrosion of those parts but the disc and drum pistons and cylinders are steel so water emulsified in the oil can still do damage, hence the recommendation periodically to renew the hydraulic oil.

Can we just accept that air can get into brake systems and needs to be removed and that small quantities of water can be absorbed over time and it is recommended that brake fluid is periodically renewed.

We need to get back on-topic and offer useful advice to bexyp88.

red
 
Last edited:
Heya again all, we've done the tests you've said,

The Brake pedal, Pushed and then the engine started Does drop a little bit.
When the engine is off, it is already firm, it doesnt need pumping.

It just seems that it goes quite low to the floor when breaking as you are driving along, whereas in other cars I've not experienced a brake pedal to go that low. I have driven many many cars but I havnt got another fiat punto to see if they are all like it or not. I'm just generally worried incase they are faulty in ome way as I have young children.

Thanks for all your help, from the results of what you've asked me to do, is there anything that suggests a fault?

I dont know if it would help in any way but would a photo of how low it goes be usefull at all?

Thanks again
 
Last edited:
Well it seems your brake servo is working, good start.
Check the brake fluid level is correct next, by the way if you are unsure of any of these checks consider a good garage nearby, no need for me to state the obvious about brakes.

Does your car have rear brake drums? It may be the self adjusters have failed requiring strip, remove, clean, re-assemble & adjust... wise to check condition & serviceability of the rear shoes at this point & get back on here.
 
Sounds likely that it's OK and just different from what you are used to. However, for peace of mind, how about a free check somewhere, Nationwide Autocentres for instance:

http://www.nationwideautocentres.co.uk/Other-Services/Brakes/

QUOTE:
Free Brake Checks
If you are ever in any doubt about the state of your brakes, in between services, at Nationwide Autocentres we provide a no obligation FREE OF CHARGE brake check. Simply book an appointment below.


Of course they want to sell and fit pads/discs/shoes where possible but as it says, there's no obligation. They have branches all over the place. I don't think Nationwide Autocentres is actually a big organisation, more of a national syndicate of local garages with an umbrella management to give a corporate facade. This does mean that some branches are better than others (I speak from experience of MOT tests). If they suggest some expensive repairs you can always go to some other place for a second opinion. Either way, you could come back here and tell us before parting company with any cash.

red
 
Last edited:
I'll see if I can get to one, there's one pretty close. My partner works on cars so he knows how to fit pads discs etc anyway, even though he's just fitted brand new ones, howeve he seems to think that I'm making it up that there's something wrong with them.. maybe it is because they are just different but I'd like their oppinion anyways. I'll get back to you if I manage to get it in to one. Thanks
 
Back
Top