Technical power steering noise when driving

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Technical power steering noise when driving

dagdromer

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When I bought my Fiat Panda it made a noise while driving. It sounded like it had starting bad front wheel bearing or that the gearbox was low on fluid. The sound seemed engine rpm related. I checked the fluid level in the gearbox, that was fine and there is no play in the bearing. Now for another job I took of the plastics around the steering column and drove it around. The sound is far more clear, it seems to come from the steering column.

last week the car threw a red power steering light while driving. Restarting the car did not help but after a minute or 2 it disappeared again. I've read several threads that the powering steering seems to play up with cold and or wet weather. It was near 0 and raining that day. I will check the battery, the connections there and I've seem something about the wiring near the wiper motor.

is there anything else I can check?
 
. The sound seemed engine rpm related. .

is there anything else I can check?
not the power steering then

petrol / diesel with aircon / without ?

on the left side looking from the front you have the aux belt. If loose, tighten, if not I'd flip it off to eliminate the alternator bearing as it sounds like it more this side. Its also quite common for the belt to go sticky where oil gets spilt into it in the past. makes like a ticking noise that gets quicker as the RPM increase

a random steering failure in the cold is likely to battery or connections. In the wet could be a loose alternator belt unfortunately yours failed while both cold and wet

how noisy? subjective I know. these are not the quietest of engines by todays standards.
 
the alternator is new, changed before I purchased the car, same as the battery. The belt is not new but did not look to bad when I replaced the timingbelt. I will throw it of and test.

The car is a 1.2 petrol with aircon.

indeed noisy is difficult to tell, as said sounds like wheel bearing going out but not in a way that you need to pray to get home. just the annoying buzz
 
agreed but what surprised me is that the noise became so much clearer when I removed the plastics around the steering column. there is some insulation around that part but not so much.

I will check if the car also makes the noise when i rev it, i think it is only present while driving.
 
agreed but what surprised me is that the noise became so much clearer when I removed the plastics around the steering column. there is some insulation around that part but not so much.

I will check if the car also makes the noise when i rev it, i think it is only present while driving.
worse coasting
worse accelerating
which gear your in or neutral
does it alter if you dip the clutch
worse sharp left or right corner
worse long left or right corner
change in noise when braking
noise present if revved when stationary
noise present at idle

mobile phone recording can help. The microphone is very sensitive to distance
 
The alternator is located just in front of the steering column (RHD cars). Alternators corrode internally and cause the rotor to rub the stator. They may well be making power but will soon seize up and trash the auxiliary belt.

Check the alternator for noise. Replace if it's noisy as almost certainly the casing will be cracked.

Air con compressor clutch is a another source of noise - driving zircon and idling. Easy to check as it sits above the alternator.

Removing the alternator is done from the drivers side (RHD) wheel arch. You also need to disconnect the gearbox "dog-bone" engine mount. This allows you to wedge the top of the engine forwards to improve access the alternator top bolt. You will get less that 1" of added space but its enough to actually get to the bolt.

Fitting the new alternator is a struggle as you can't get the top bolt into place without help to wiggle the alternator. It's "doable" but it's not easy.
 
it is a dutch car, so left hand drive. The alternator has been replaced just before I bought it. The weather is not to well at the moment to start tinkering. I heard the belt squeaking a little at idle so I will throw it of to see the noise goes away.
 
After letting brain cells shuffle for while the best test is to pull the power steering fuse. If the noise goes away you'll have proved it is the steering system. The car is VERY hard to steer at parking speeds but feels pretty normal at road speeds so its not "too" hard to deal with.
 
That is a good suggestion. I will try that. I'm used to driving a non power steering car as I own a 87 ford escort cabby with the small sporty RS steering wheel.
 
You could have a broken bearing inside the gear box. If that is the case.is simple to diagnose. When you hear the noise, press the clutch pedal. If the noise stops, it's coming from the gear box.
 
You could have a broken bearing inside the gear box. If that is the case.is simple to diagnose. When you hear the noise, press the clutch pedal. If the noise stops, it's coming from the gear box.
Good point. The gearbox input bearing is known to fail especially if the box has ever been run low on oil. The symptom is noise with engine running in neutral that goes away when clutch pedal is pushed down. It's possible for a failed clutch to rattle but that's pretty rare and would usually include clutch symptoms.
 
Finally had some spare time to check all the suggestions.

- Taking out the powersteering fuse makes the car steer very heavy from standstill but the noise does not go away.
- Taking of the belt solved a slight squeak on deceleration but the noise does not seem to go away. The alternator is brand new with a new pulley, the ac compressor spins free when not engaged and the tensioner is not making any noise. I must admit that I did only drove it back and forward on the parking lot as the power steering stopped immediately when the belt was off and the car has not been used a lot the last couple of weeks so the battery could be a little low. the noise is best heard when going a little faster.
- Without driving I cannot create the noise, revving the car in neutral does not create it regardless if I engage the clutch or not. While driving the sound is there, with clutch in or out.

So plan of attack will be. Charge the battery and go for a longer drive. Fit a new belt to resolve the squeak. If still present take front end apart, brakes to check wheel bearings. and last resort, put it on the ramp, put somebody in the car and let him "drive" the car while listing underneath where the noise is coming from.
 
agreed but what surprised me is that the noise became so much clearer when I removed the plastics around the steering column. there is some insulation around that part but not so much.

I will check if the car also makes the noise when i rev it, i think it is only present while driving.
Missed this one

if effected by road speed not engine revs it can't be anything other than brakes or wheel bearing

Might even just been stood a long time and discs corroded

if the noise changes as you touch the brake

I would start by checking the front caliper piston slides back freely. The slide pins err slide and the discs and pads are in Good condition.

if the noise doesn't alter when you touch the brake

I would check the splash / back plate isn't catching (surprisingly common) and the wheel bearing
 
Worn discs with a wear ridge on the edge can cause the pads to be noisy when not in use. Sometimes the pads can be worn enough for the metal to hit the wear ridge before the pads are technically worn out.

The thin metal covers over the back of the disc rust and catch the disc. Stones can get trapped between disc and cover making horrible noise. IMO they offer nothing of value. Motorbikes dont use them so why do cars need them?
 
Well the search continues. Took the car to a friend who is an MOT tester. Got the car on the ramps and did a pre MOT check. It passed with flying colors. No noise from the brakes or bearings. Changed the aux belt to get rid of the squeak and still the noise it there. But with the car on the ramps and "driving" the noise can not be heard outside the car. only inside the car it is noticeable and the sound is really electronical.
It is best noticeable in second gear going on or coming off the throttle.

Is the electric powersteering besides city mode also speed dependent?
 
Well the search continues. Took the car to a friend who is an MOT tester. Got the car on the ramps and did a pre MOT check. It passed with flying colors. No noise from the brakes or bearings. Changed the aux belt to get rid of the squeak and still the noise it there. But with the car on the ramps and "driving" the noise can not be heard outside the car. only inside the car it is noticeable and the sound is really electronical.
It is best noticeable in second gear going on or coming off the throttle.

Is the electric powersteering besides city mode also speed dependent?
EPS is speed dependent in all modes

most assistance is when you turning the steering wheel and are not moving in city mode

and very little assistance at 55 mph in either mode

when the steering wheel isn't being turned its not doing anything.
 
The power steering assist is speed dependant, but there's nothing spinning in there unless you're turning the steering wheel (no pumps etc). It won't be making any noise.

Have you checked gearbox oil level (and condition)? Box whine could be transmitted into the cabin through the rear dogbone mount especially.
 
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