General possible remap issue???

[fergusona]

hi. Got remap done at Red Dot a few weeks back. All going well accept for 1 small issue. Not sure if down to remap or not so looking for suggestions.

If I am driving in 4th or 5th at around 2300rpm and then go to accelerate hard the engine noise builds along with the revs until about 2700rpm with little acceleration. Once you reach 2700rpm it all kicks in. If however I accelerate from low down in the revs say around 1800rpm in 4th or 5th I dont seem to get this.

Doesnt really happen in 1st, 2nd or 3rd but goes through these gears a lot quicker anyway so might be harder to notice.

Thought it might be slippy clutch at first but dont accelerates fine in lower gears so wouldnt have thought it was this.

Any suggestions?

 

[Argonought]

Thought it might be slippy clutch at first but dont accelerates fine in lower gears so wouldnt have thought it was this.

You'll only notice a slipping clutch in the high gears (like 5th).

Take to 2000rpm and then floor it

 

[bozzy]

If it occured after the remap then it's a good bet it's caused it. My thrust kicks in at 1800 ish whatever the gear. Worth getting in touch with them.

 

[fergusona]

Have done a bit more "testing" seems like it's actually happening all the time - from about 1800 rpm onwards only if accelerating hard though. 1st and 2nd can't really sense it but definately in the other gears.

Guy at Red Dot said he thought that my turbo might be on it's way out, wondering if that could be it? Sounds like I can hear the turbo spin up (then again it could just be the revs) for about 2 seconds with very little acceleration, then you get a burst of power (normally with a puff out of the exhaust).

 

[bozzy]

Did it start directly after the remap?

 

[minimad99]

Fergusona,
Have you checked out your graph from the rolling road? Is there anything on there that links to your observations?
I have a had similar with mine since the remap but not quite the same, i'll try to explain.
When accelerating hard no problem at all, nice smooth input of power from very low down and throughout the rev range with lots of it!!
However....... if accelerating gently/slowly in 3rd gear only when the revs reach approx 3100-3300 the accelerating levels out slightly as i you've lifted off a bit but only for a second then kicks back in.
I've looked at my graph and these revs seem to coincide with a slight flat spot on the bhp curve and the start of the downward on the torque curve.

This doesn't seem to effect me much as i either drive hard so it doesn't happen or i'm pootling around in low revs dependant on traffic and where i'm going, LOL

Any thoughts welcome.

 

[Argonought]

That BHP drop off at 4500rpm looks very sharp
There's also a faint line underneath which drops even earlier at 4300rpm (original map?).

There's something odd here as I'm sure my JTD easily plunges into the red (over 4500) if I let it

 

[chromegrey]

hi. Got remap done at Red Dot a few weeks back. All going well accept for 1 small issue. Not sure if down to remap or not so looking for suggestions.

If I am driving in 4th or 5th at around 2300rpm and then go to accelerate hard the engine noise builds along with the revs until about 2700rpm with little acceleration. Once you reach 2700rpm it all kicks in. If however I accelerate from low down in the revs say around 1800rpm in 4th or 5th I dont seem to get this.

Doesnt really happen in 1st, 2nd or 3rd but goes through these gears a lot quicker anyway so might be harder to notice.

Thought it might be slippy clutch at first but dont accelerates fine in lower gears so wouldnt have thought it was this.

Any suggestions?

you need a new clutch - I had this problem with my remap 12 months later!

Fiat will want about £400 to fit one, as the gearbox has to come off

 

[fergusona]

Thanks for the responses. The issues did happen after the remap so guess I should contact Red Dot also.

Graph didn't show any flat spots so - haven't got scanner so can't attach at the mo.

Minimad, think mine seems opposite to yours as under gentle acceleration it's fine it's only when I accelerate quite hard. Doesn't really sounds like a flat spot. Only way I can describe mine is it does sound like a slipping clutch which tends to contradict argonougt however agrees with chromegrey.

The output graph does indicate that the big increase in torque is between 1500 and 2500rpm which does kind of relate to the area where I am having the issue however seems odd that it's only really noticeable in 3rd, 4th and 5th although guessing that the higher gears are where the time taken to get though the gears is going to be longer so this is where you would notice it.

Does anyone know if the torque output would be different depending on which gear you were in???

Clutch was fine before remap so unless remap has just pushed it over the edge. Still think turbo may be possibilty.

Hmmm, will post results if/when I find out the cause.

 

[minimad99]

That BHP drop off at 4500rpm looks very sharp
There's also a faint line underneath which drops even earlier at 4300rpm (original map?).

There's something odd here as I'm sure my JTD easily plunges into the red (over 4500) if I let it

Argo,
I agree it does drop off quick, it must have been the way that they tested them as all were the same. I'd assumed that thr drop was just when the operator stopped accleleating and the car went to idle revs.
Mine does accelerate into the red although i don't take it there often
The faint line was the original curve.

 

[volxstu]

Now im going to add another spanner into the works as i am having exactly the same problem. Its very similar to having a nackered LAMBDA sensor. Now i know that i have a hole in my exhaust which was what i thought was the problem. I did try to Remap my car but the Map wasnt making any affect at all, infact after the map the car ran less BHP/Torque than standard. I am going to book the car in this week hopefully and find out what codes are showing if any.

 

[MF-Racing]

Now im going to add another spanner into the works as i am having exactly the same problem. Its very similar to having a nackered LAMBDA sensor. Now i know that i have a hole in my exhaust which was what i thought was the problem. I did try to Remap my car but the Map wasnt making any affect at all, infact after the map the car ran less BHP/Torque than standard. I am going to book the car in this week hopefully and find out what codes are showing if any.

This is what i was thinking as well, sounds like a lambda sensor on its way out...

Has my car remaped last week and i'm not getting any flat spots or lag at all. 1000% better than it was before Its been on a interpendant dyno this weekend and its now putting out 122.4bhp and 115.2ft-lb :slayer: Hopefully once I get a cold air feed sorted it will run even better...

 

[fergusona]

Do you get Lambda sensors for diesels?

 

[Argonought]

Do you get Lambda sensors for diesels?

Just the cat (and the EGR system) on a JTD as far as I know :chin:

 

[Noclu3]

Whats you MPG like?

Has it droped 15%ish?

 

[minimad99]

Whats you MPG like?

Has it droped 15%ish?

Not sure who aimed at but i'll answer anyway.

No, complete opposite, mines up from 44-45 to 51-53mpg and i drive mainly A roads, 80 mile round trip to work and I don't hang around, LOL especially after the remap.

 

[fergusona]

Mine has dropped from about 50 to 43, 44. Might be due to heavier right foot now though.

Got some more results which is now confusing me even more.

Did as Argonought suggested and took to 2000rpm in each gear and booted it. 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th all seem fine. Possibly a slight bit of slippage/flat spot in 4th but not really noticable. In 5th it will accelerate ok to about 2300, hear it spin up to 2700rpm with no real increase in acceleration, you then get puff of smoke from exhaust (can't tell colour as was dark but generally it's been black), revs will then drop again to 2500rpm, will spin up again to about 2900rpm, again slight boost in acceleration before dropping to about 2700rpm. This seems to repeat with the increments getting smaller each time.

Only really took up to about 3000 rpm as in 5th it's quite quick so I was doing this on a private road Hadn't really noticed this yoyo'ing affect as when previously testing I had lifted off once it had spun up.

If I accelerate in 4th from about 1700rpm I get the spin up affect but doesn't yo yo. Get spin up again around the 2300 mark up to 2700 followed by a boost again.

If I accelerate from about 2500rpm all seems fine.

Seems like a dodgy remap to me as symptoms don't seem consistant enough to point to turbo or clutch?

If clutch was going would the revs yoyo like they were doing in top gear?
If it was turbo surely I would lose power in lower gears and acceleration from 2500 rpm should be affected?

One thing I thought about which I will try and test tomorrow is switching off the T/C. Don't think this would make a difference but worth a try.

Hopefully will try and get hold of Red Dot tomorrow, might have to return for re-visit.

 

[Argonought]

Did as Argonought suggested and took to 2000rpm in each gear and booted it. 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th all seem fine. Possibly a slight bit of slippage/flat spot in 4th but not really noticable. In 5th it will accelerate ok to about 2300, hear it spin up to 2700rpm with no real increase in acceleration, you then get puff of smoke from exhaust (can't tell colour as was dark but generally it's been black), revs will then drop again to 2500rpm, will spin up again to about 2900rpm, again slight boost in acceleration before dropping to about 2700rpm. This seems to repeat with the increments getting smaller each time.

fergusona, these are classic symptoms of a slipping clutch (sorry, I didn't really tell you what to look for did I).

The reason for going to 2000 rpm is because the un-mapped engine produces max torque at these revs. Strictly speaking you should hold the car steady at whatever max torque is shown on your map before flooring the accelerator.

Don't do it anymore though, as you've proved the point, and you don't want to damage the clutch anymore. The puff of smoke you see is more likely debris from your clutch as it wears itself down to the rivets

You should take the car back and ask to have the max torque reduced urgently before you ruin the clutch completely (unless you DO want to pay for a new one). I'm rather surprised the mapping company didn't pick up on this instead of talking nonsense about a defective turbo

 

[fergusona]

Ok thanks Argonought.

Was going to look into replacing clutch if that was the cause. Figure not much point getting remap removed as if clutch is cause then chances are it's probably going to go eventually with or without the map. Thought would go for a sports/heavier duty one with remap just to be on the safe side.

Any recommendations?

Do you know why the revs would bounce/yoyo up and down as they did then? Thought if it was the clutch the revs would just keep rising? Unless the ECU's clever enough to work out that the clutch is playing.

Also do you know why would only be apparent is higher gears? Assuming that more torque's required at higher speeds but took car up one of the sliproads near me (fairly good incline) in 3rd and was pulling fine up it under hard acceleration.

Not sure I like the sound of what you were saying regarding smoke and clutch debris being related sounds a bit scary.

Cheers.

 

[minimad99]

Fergusona,
What were your final bhp/torque figures on the day?