General Polish 650 engines

[Yellblob]

Hello,
As my lowish compression 500 continues to give sluggish performance and a lot of heat, I'm considering an engine and gearbox from a Polish 126. A chap on eBay is selling them for what seems a reasonable price. Should I be wary of anything in particular about a Polish made engine? Are they a reasonable idea as a replacement? Plus is there anyone in the Midlands(UK)who would check out such an engine and rebore as necessary? My other option is to send my 500 engine for a rebuild. Thanks in advance!

 

[AndrewHarvey]

I bought a 126 gearbox 3 weeks ago from him described as suitable for a 500 and it wasn't
I had to change the driveshafts myself.......and now it's stuck in gear and I cannot get it to work.....

 

[fiat500]

By "lowish compression" do you mean worn?
If so. I would save your money and an excursion into the unknown by having the engine rebored with new pistons and whatever else it needs. That assumes you are confident with the job.
I know that the majority opinion is that the 650 engine in any form beats the 500 and it obviously must have a bit of extra power, but my 500 engine, which is in good order has all the power the car needs.
Before any money gets spent I would check all the tappet clearances and the timing.

 

[Vitesse]

I have seen this guy on eBay recently with pictures of loads of pictures of 650 engines sitting on pallets. He is selling the older distributor engines for £260 and the later electronic ignition engines for £280.

Clearly they have been just removed from old Polish 126's that are being scrapped so he has doesn't really know how good they are. He says he can start and run them and I think there is a video on YouTube.

The problem with 500/650 engines is they are surrounded by tinwork so you can't really see oil leaks etc from the block on the outside without removing it all first.

I bought a 650 engine and gearbox from someone last year on eBay and I paid £250 for both. Externally it looked great and ran superb on a bench test, until I noticed an oil leak from the front crank seal. On taking the tinwork of it was leaking oil all over the place. This was a very late 1997 engine as well but clearly over the years had had very little love. I was fortunate that I had the knowledge to strip it down and rebuild it, the timing chain was so slack it was unbelievable. But it probably cost me about another £250 in parts to rebuild and it doesn't take into account the time cost if you are getting someone else to do the work for you.

500/650 engines are pretty bullet proof they will start up and run with oil squirting out of everywhere. But you have to bear in mind that these 126's are probably the bottom of the pecking order in Poland and have probably not been very well maintained, if at all????

They look like a bargain but sometimes if it looks too good to believe, there is almost certainly something not right.

But to give the guy his due where there is demand and you can supply, then good luck to him but personally if I bought one I would strip it down first and rebuild it.

Tony

 

[Toshi 975]

If you are going to stick with the 500 engine you could consider getting a spare pair of cylinder barrels. Have those rebored for new pistons then you could just swop the new for old with the engine still in the car.
As for 650 engines I bought one some years ago that has covered less than 8,000 miles. I was having problems with the engine I was running and wanted the replacement as a back up. I ended up rebuilding a complete engine which runs fine so the low mileage engine still sits under a cover in my garage and is now surplus to requirements should anyone be interested.

 

[Yellblob]

Thanks all,
I'm glad I asked as it could be a lot of work that I don't need. Yes, I would rather stay original. I have checked everything like carb, pump, timing, clearances, tank cap. I have enquired to Willenhall engines, but haven't had a response as yet. Thanks.

 

[Tin Tin]

Hi I have just bitten the bullet and bought the "new old stock" 1988 650 engine from him, allegedly zero miles. His name is Mario and seemed to be a really nice guy. Winter project is to fit it as is, with fresh oil. Am i being brave or should I carry out some checks?

I am reluctant to pull it apart as persuaded my wife it would be a quick way of getting our 500 back on the road! if I strip it down to examine it, another year will pass by.

Peter

 

[Paolo66]

Bench test it first before you stick it in the car. Turn it over by hand before you bench test it

 

[AndrewHarvey]

People can be lovely as they take your money....my gearbox from him is still stuck in gear and he appears unwilling to communicate - buyer beware!!

 

[Tin Tin]

Wise advice from you both, I will keep you posted of developements.

Thanks

Peter

 

[fiat500]

Hi Peter, if it's from the Ebayer that I think it is, looking at the feedback over recent months I doubt you have anything to worry about. Some of us out here are very confident with jobs like engine and gearbox rebuilds and will try to tackle anything. This possibly leads to having a built-in suspicion of anything rebuilt by someone else. That's why some of us deliberately choose to rebuild a whole wreck of a car when there are plenty of good ones out there.
Not everyone wants to get bogged down deep in mechanical work and as you say, this is supposed to be a short-cut to getting the car on the road....good call if you asked me.
It isn't that hard to rig up a test-pallet/ tyre or whatever, so it would be good to try it out first. But having said that, as it is going to work and because only time will show if the rebuild was done properly, there would also be no harm just sticking it in. It's not the most difficult engine to insert/remove. is it?

 

[Franko500]

Remember you are buying an engine that is probably over 20 years old.
Do not expect it to be a new one. Do not expect it to work.
I generally look at anything this age and think "okay it looks okay, everything is there, I can get spares, so if it doesn't work I can fix it"
The choice is are you happy with the 500 engine & non synchro box? I know Peter & Tony love theirs for the originality & has enough power to do what the car was built for.

Where as Andrew is going for a full blown race model.

The 650 is a good upgrade, almost double the hp. But don't forget you will need a 650 box or at least the flywheel housing & a different starter motor.
And as Andrew mentioned you need to change the driveshafts over as they are different length.
The downside of buying a second hand engine is you could end up rebuilding it, when you could have rebuilt your old one. But whats the worst that can happen? You could end up with 2 or 3 or 4 engines in the garage like most of us 500 enthusiasts.

 

[Tin Tin]

Thanks to all for all your kind words, advice and encouragement. I have started a new thread to record progress as I seem to have hijacked this one!

Peter