Technical Pieces of timing chain in the sump

[1500500]

Hi all

Yesterday when swapping my sump I found a few pieces of timing chain oil slingers in the sump

Have no idea when they came off.

Car has been running fine and they can fall through from the timing cover into the sump very easily

So has this happened to anyone else, and would I be able to continue driving until new parts arrive, or just wait???

 

[Toshi 975]

So has this happened to anyone else, and would I be able to continue driving until new parts arrive, or just wait???

I have never seen that before but I would say it would be best to resist the temptation to go out for a spin for a couple of good reasons.
I would think that the timing chain set is very worn to the point where those slingers have suffered trauma where they are hitting the inside of the timing chain cover and will have been eating into it. Eventually if the chain survived that long it would knock a hole in the side so more expense. The slingers do not form a structural part of the chain but if they can come adrift then it could be a link next time and a major engine failure.

 

[fiat500]

Annoyingly, the new timing chain set I bought recently doesn't have those little oil-slinger/tensioners.

 

[Toshi 975]

Annoyingly, the new timing chain set I bought recently doesn't have those little oil-slinger/tensioners.

Two possibilities I believe, a very old one, maybe aftermarket as I have come across a couple or most likely a Bis one which I believe may be slightly chunkier.

 

[the hobbler]

I totally agree with David ('Toshi')---do NOT continue to drive the car. By falling off, the lack of slingers will have compromised the tension/security of the pins joining the links. Replace the chain and both sprockets---for what they cost (relatively little) it is not worth risking the potential damage. Like Peter, I have seen the chain/sprocket sets where the chain has no tension-slingers. Whatever you DO get, buy the best that you can.

 

[1500500]

I have never seen that before but I would say it would be best to resist the temptation to go out for a spin for a couple of good reasons.
I would think that the timing chain set is very worn to the point where those slingers have suffered trauma where they are hitting the inside of the timing chain cover and will have been eating into it. Eventually if the chain survived that long it would knock a hole in the side so more expense. The slingers do not form a structural part of the chain but if they can come adrift then it could be a link next time and a major engine failure.

I totally agree with David ('Toshi')---do NOT continue to drive the car. By falling off, the lack of slingers will have compromised the tension/security of the pins joining the links. Replace the chain and both sprockets---for what they cost (relatively little) it is not worth risking the potential damage. Like Peter, I have seen the chain/sprocket sets where the chain has no tension-slingers. Whatever you DO get, buy the best that you can.

Thanks all. You all supported my assumption that a few little drives would not be good....

The timing chain was new when I rebuilt the engine and I have only gone 542 miles since getting it on the road.

It’s a bit disappointing but with stay at home rules getting stricter it couldn’t be better timing.

I will try one of the local parts suppliers. Hopefully they will still
Be open tomorrow.

With less flights in and out of Australia the wait for overseas parts could be quite long.

Cheers

Geoff

 

[F123C]

Hi Geoff,

I've seen a few cases where some of the little flingers became detached but all were on very badly worn chains and never on a new chain after such a small mileage.

I assume the chain was correctly fitted, i.e. the flingers away from the engine (iirc)?
Although I doubt fitting it the wrong way around would have caused the flingers to become detached, unless they came into contact with something.

I too, would recommend not running the engine until another chain has been installed, there's always a possibility of a detached flinger getting caught between the chain and one of the sprockets (doing damage) or the chain splitting as already said.

If you can't source a replacement chain:-

1) Would it be possible to re-use the old/original chain if you still have it?

2) Maybe try an Industrial Supply Company? some of these specialise in supplying bearings, seals, and power transmission components such as drive
belts and CHAINS. Some cars use a connecting link on their timing chain, so it should be ok to buy a length of suitably sized chain and install it with a split link. If you're worried about using a split link with a spring clip, you could enquire if they have a 'soft-link' to suit, this is a connecting link which has soft pin ends and can be rivetted after installation.

3) Try a motorcycle shop. They just might have suitably sized chain on a roll (some used to stock it) and a suitable connecting link (normal spring clip type or rivet-able). Older/Classic motorcycles have used both types of connecting links on their cam chains and final drive chains.

4) I don't know if this would work, but maybe you could remove the chain, prise off all the remaining fingers and see if the chain is still viable i.e. check if all the chain link side-plates are still securely rivetted without the flingers in place?

Hth,

Al.

 

[1500500]

Hi Geoff,

I've seen a few cases where some of the little flingers became detached but all were on very badly worn chains and never on a new chain after such a small mileage.

I assume the chain was correctly fitted, i.e. the flingers away from the engine (iirc)?
Although I doubt fitting it the wrong way around would have caused the flingers to become detached, unless they came into contact with something.

I too, would recommend not running the engine until another chain has been installed, there's always a possibility of a detached flinger getting caught between the chain and one of the sprockets (doing damage) or the chain splitting as already said.

If you can't source a replacement chain:-

1) Would it be possible to re-use the old/original chain if you still have it?

2) Maybe try an Industrial Supply Company? some of these specialise in supplying bearings, seals, and power transmission components such as drive
belts and CHAINS. Some cars use a connecting link on their timing chain, so it should be ok to buy a length of suitably sized chain and install it with a split link. If you're worried about using a split link with a spring clip, you could enquire if they have a 'soft-link' to suit, this is a connecting link which has soft pin ends and can be rivetted after installation.

3) Try a motorcycle shop. They just might have suitably sized chain on a roll (some used to stock it) and a suitable connecting link (normal spring clip type or rivet-able). Older/Classic motorcycles have used both types of connecting links on their cam chains and final drive chains.

4) I don't know if this would work, but maybe you could remove the chain, prise off all the remaining fingers and see if the chain is still viable i.e. check if all the chain link side-plates are still securely rivetted without the flingers in place?

Hth,

Al.

Hi.

I went back through my engine rebuild photos. Here is the timing chain...

A fellow local club member has offered a new chain to help me get it back on the road while another is ordered so hopefully this weekend I’ll be able to see inside

Cheers

Geoff

 

[gordinir8]

Ha! welcome to the club, happened to me with new chain after 1500 km. Just replaced the chain, i hope they are still there. I think it has to do with low quality spare parts that unfortunately it is hard to know if they are good or not. Back in the old days not OEM parts where made from a few only companies that you knew which was good and which was crap. Today there are lots of parts made in China and most of the times are crap.

Here is my post about it: https://www.fiatforum.com/500-classic/460374-found-inside-my-oil-pan.html

 

[1500500]

Ha! welcome to the club, happened to me with new chain after 1500 km. Just replaced the chain, i hope they are still there. I think it has to do with low quality spare parts that unfortunately it is hard to know if they are good or not. Back in the old days not OEM parts where made from a few only companies that you knew which was good and which was crap. Today there are lots of parts made in China and most of the times are crap.

Here is my post about it: https://www.fiatforum.com/500-classic/460374-found-inside-my-oil-pan.html

Thanks. I thought I had seen this on the forum before. My searches for timing chain etc didn’t find your post. Cheers

 

[1500500]

Here is the dismantling process to take the timing cover off.

I was a bit concerned I would not be able to undo the crankshaft pulley bolt but looked in the corner of the garage and spotted the trusty crow bar. I put a couple of longer bolts into the pully and had the bar sitting on the ground on a slight angle. Placed the socket wrench next to it and pulled the two together with my mighty grip strength...

With the timing cover off i took the opportunity to remove the engine mount studs so I could fit the lowering spacer To allow the sports exhaust to go back on.

Just waiting for new timing chain kit to arrive.

 

[gordinir8]

Here is the dismantling process to take the timing cover off.

I was a bit concerned I would not be able to undo the crankshaft pulley bolt but looked in the corner of the garage and spotted the trusty crow bar. I put a couple of longer bolts into the pully and had the bar sitting on the ground on a slight angle. Placed the socket wrench next to it and pulled the two together with my mighty grip strength...

Nice thinking but for those missing a 2 meter bar you can use instead a No 8 or 10 combination spanner. I am securing it's round end with one of pulleys bolts but on the back side of the pulley, the open end touches the engine block (bellow engine mount stud in the pic) and blocks the pulley to turn.

 

[1500500]

Nice thinking but for those missing a 2 meter bar you can use instead a No 8 or 10 combination spanner. I am securing it's round end with one of pulleys bolts but on the back side of the pulley, the open end touches the engine block (bellow engine mount stud in the pic) and blocks the pulley to turn.

That’s a lot safer. I will try the opposite Side when doing up the pully bolt. Thanks