Technical Parasitic drain - '09 1.6 Diesel Bravo

barry181091

New member
Joined
Feb 8, 2018
Messages
27
I have been having battery drain issues with my 2009 1.6 105 diesel bravo for a while now. If I leave the car over a full weekend, it will usually be dead or enough to not turn over enough when I try to start it.

AA did a test twice on the battery and it came back OK, also I have disconnected the battery for a week and it was fine after. So I did some digging for any parasitic drain and it turns out that there is .18/.19 of an amp draw with nothing on.

Further whittled this down and it comes from the F47 and F48 fuses. Both pulling half of the current each. These correspond to the front right/left power windows according to my manual.

Anyone have any idea what specifically about the front power windows that could be causing this draw?
 
OP
OP
B

barry181091

New member
Joined
Feb 8, 2018
Messages
27
Ok, I have found a great diagram in the eLearn that could really help me. It is the wiring diagram for the front doors and directly comes back to the F47/F48 fuses.

I have attached the picture, what I am wondering if someone would have an idea where the likely .1A is being lost per fuse?
 

Attachments

  • Door.JPG
    Door.JPG
    212.9 KB · Views: 33
OP
OP
B

barry181091

New member
Joined
Feb 8, 2018
Messages
27
I have now found that a relay (T13) supplies those two fuses direct to either window motor. This relay is controlled by a pin from the body computer (M1).

Now, I forget for which fuse it was yesterday, but I distinctly heard a clicking sound when I put one back in, indicating this relay was clicking on.

As the windows work perfectly, I cannot see how the relay itself is faulty. The only options I can think of are:

- Body computer (M1) is giving the wrong signal for the relay to switch on.
- Something in the control panel for either window is faulty.
- Relay itself is somehow faulty.
 
OP
OP
B

barry181091

New member
Joined
Feb 8, 2018
Messages
27
OK, round two with this thing!

I pulled out the relay that is before the two fuses in this circuit. All looks good with this, I even pulled it apart!

Now one thing I did realise is that the clicking I hear when pushing in and out the fuse or relay is actually coming from within the car door...

So I'm stumped, I may just buy one of those cheap Chinese jump starters at this stage ?
 
OP
OP
B

barry181091

New member
Joined
Feb 8, 2018
Messages
27
Haven't done that yet! I wanted to avoid opening the door(s) but I guess this is the next logical step. Will try this after t he weekend :eek:
 
OP
OP
B

barry181091

New member
Joined
Feb 8, 2018
Messages
27
How do you mean 5 mins and free?

I just don't see how it can be the relay though. As in, I opened the old relay and it looks fine! (To be honest, I couldn't actually figure out WHERE it did the switching at all inside :eek: )

I will see if I can put in one of the relays from the front fuse box into it and see where does it get me.

I have attached pictures of the relay for your viewing pleasure!

Thanks!
 

Attachments

  • DSC_0003 (1).JPG
    DSC_0003 (1).JPG
    4.1 MB · Views: 31
  • DSC_0004.JPG
    DSC_0004.JPG
    4.7 MB · Views: 41
  • DSC_0005.JPG
    DSC_0005.JPG
    4.7 MB · Views: 26
  • DSC_0006.JPG
    DSC_0006.JPG
    4.8 MB · Views: 18
  • DSC_0007.JPG
    DSC_0007.JPG
    4.6 MB · Views: 25
OP
OP
B

barry181091

New member
Joined
Feb 8, 2018
Messages
27
Unless I am mad, shouldn't there be a coil in the relay? I don't understand how it is switching anything if there isn't...

I have attached the wiring diagram and you can see the relay T13 at the top under B001. Here it clearly shows a coil betweek 86 and 85 which controls a switch in the relay....:bang:
 

Attachments

  • Fuse.JPG
    Fuse.JPG
    121.6 KB · Views: 29
Joined
Apr 27, 2011
Messages
29,689
Location
Near the M4
I meant swapping 2 'identical' relays that are already on the car :)

In my case the fault was 'fixed' by such a swap.

Zero cost..and a little time :)

IF the fault 'moved' from elect windows..to another system.. then the relay looks bad.

Charlie
 
OP
OP
B

barry181091

New member
Joined
Feb 8, 2018
Messages
27
Thanks Charlie!

Will try that once I am out of work. I do not know why I didn't yesterday :bang:
 
OP
OP
B

barry181091

New member
Joined
Feb 8, 2018
Messages
27
Right, so I swapped the relay with another that was in the main fuse box and the windows would not operate.

What I have found is that this relay is in fact not a relay at all... But a strange jumper arrangement. If it was an actual relay, I wouldn't have this drain issue. I wonder could it have been some bug in the hardware design as was suggested below. Although, if it was, that would mens every person who has a 1.6 diesel from 2009 would have this drain issue.

See my question here:
https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/433436/parasitic-drain-what-type-of-relay-is-this

One thing I did notice was that when I replace either fuse for the window motors (F47/F48) there is a clicking coming from either door depending in the fuse.

Perhaps there are relays in the doors for the motors? I just don't know what would be controlling them.

Could I ask a favor of someone who has a bravo, preferably a 1.6 diesel but athey should be all the same. Would you be able to tell me the amount if current being pulled by the car when it is off? Perhaps this .2a is by design?
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 27, 2011
Messages
29,689
Location
Near the M4
As you will probably have noticed..

The tech info with the bravo is a tad lacking. :(

The GP and Croma are probably nearest relatives for similar kit.

Good luck

Charlie
 

aschiuta

Active member
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
137
This is from Elearn:

The services relay T13, located in the junction unit under the dashboard B2, supplies the motors N60 and N61 - pin 6 - via two lines protected by fuses F47 and F48 through the logic described above and controlled by the Body Computer M1 - pin 14 of connector F.

The signals from the aerial-receiver of remote control unit P93, connected to pins 30 and 43 of connector B of M1, also control the opening/closing of the front electric windows.


Probably not a good contact at pin 14 from B002 or even the body computer M001 dont send the ground voltage to energise T13 coil.
Surely there must be relay like in electric diagram.
I have same car for, same year 2009, and after 3 minutes I locked the car there isnt any miliampers drain from battery
 

g8rpi

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
4,519
Location
Cambridge
At first I thought the relay was a bodge or fake, but I don't think it is. I think it is a deliberate device ro replace a relay with an always on circuit for different versions of a car without changing the loom. It clearly shows a link with no contact or coil on the diagram. It sounds like you have a stuck switch or similar in the door.


Robert G8RPI.
 

hank dutch

New member
Joined
Aug 2, 2021
Messages
2
For anyone in future coming across this thread:
The current draw of the car should go down to ~4mA (more or less zero) after a few minutes. My left front window drained ~100mA. The fault was intermittent.

There is a relay in the door, it is in the regulator of the window control. The grey socket can be pulled out of the window regulator. The relay on the PCB would be a beast to replace and I cannot find the whole unit to buy. I bought the whole regulator before removing the old one.


Trying to attach photo of the window regulator socket/PCB
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20210802_072823[1] (Copy).jpg
    IMG_20210802_072823[1] (Copy).jpg
    196 KB · Views: 13

hank dutch

New member
Joined
Aug 2, 2021
Messages
2
Update: I ordered the relay from aliexpress but as I feared I could not remove the old one without damaging a soldered on resistor, the contacts are soldered through the PCB and the metal content in the relay so high the solder does not melt all the way through, I ended up sawing off the relay to try and reduce the amount of metal to be heated. The bridge over the top also took ages to desolder from the PCB but is doable with patience. (60w iron, you may be able to use one on each side if you behead the relay)
Initially I desoldered the electrolytic capacitors (metal type C13 C15) to test and the small one gave a highish ESR but replacing it did not make a difference (22uF) so I remain suspicious it is the relay but a lot of work to try replace, manufacturer in Italy did not respond to query for the part.
 

shaun

Member
Joined
May 20, 2003
Messages
485
Location
United Kingdom.
I'm having the same problem on my 1.4 petrol. Changed the battery and still going flat when i lock the car i get i whinning noise from the drivers lock. and get a error on the dash
 
Top