General Panda replacement controversy

[porta]

Seems, according to CarScoops (USA) and Italian auto press you don’t have to worry about the Jeep Avenger being the basis for the Panda replacement, and, therefore putting on middle age spread. The latest news is the avenger has been spotted in a dress and is the replacement for the 500X to be called, more appropriately if lacking in imagination, the 600, and yes there is petrol versions the T3 1.2 3cylinder (don’t know who looked under the car, it doesn’t say) plus the Jeep version will have 4x4 (the T3 is already available to preorder in Italy and advertised on SubitoIt). The Panda was only alluded to as remaining a smaller car with a 4x4, which can only mean it isn’t on the 208e platform…this is only supposition but, maybe the delay is stellantis making a new small world platform? The ‘new old’ 500e platform doesn’t seem suited to housing 4x4 and the batteries to run it and then have the inconvenience of a driver and passengers?
like a few others on here, if the panda becomes some bloated AI euroclone, I’m going to have to start buying up all the used panda 4x4 bits, to see out my days, as a strange eccentric hermit shouting at the wind whilst everyone scurries around looking for a car parking space big enough for their gigantisaur

 

[porta]

dayFReuro 2hrs ago are reporting that the hold up to producing the new small Citroen is the new platform being developed for…the new panda…and it is the Panda which will be launched first 2024 with a new 4x4 version launched a year after 2025 with a citroen variant called the AirCross

https://euro.dayfr.com/news

 

[porta]

New Fiat Models To Draw Inspiration By 100-Year-Old Lingotto Factory | Carscoops

The Italian automaker teased the "Lingotto-inspired" interior of an unnamed model set to debut in 2024

www.carscoops.com

That interior, with ‘bins’ for a dash and a multi-use rear bench look awfully familiar to those of us that had MK1 pandas
Although MK3 is said to soldier on to 2026 and this rendering is to be launched 2024…maybe, just maybe, Fiat might actually be prioritised for once!

 

[StevenRB45]

New Fiat Models To Draw Inspiration By 100-Year-Old Lingotto Factory | Carscoops

The Italian automaker teased the "Lingotto-inspired" interior of an unnamed model set to debut in 2024

www.carscoops.com

That interior, with ‘bins’ for a dash and a multi-use rear bench look awfully familiar to those of us that had MK1 pandas
Although MK3 is said to soldier on to 2026 and this rendering is to be launched 2024…maybe, just maybe, Fiat might actually be prioritised for once!

Erm...that looks distinctly familiar.

Wonder if the hold is "so do we release the Oli as a Citroën or a Fiat Panda?"

 

[porta]

Erm...that looks distinctly familiar.

View attachment 423929
Wonder if the hold is "so do we release the Oli as a Citroën or a Fiat Panda?"

I thought that, initially, god knows, I don’t mind sharing a parts bin but let’s not just change badges and call it a pig

 

[StevenRB45]

I thought that, initially, god knows, I don’t mind sharing a parts bin but let’s not just change badges and call it a pig

The Oli is meant to be a new direction for them. An architecture that allows a proper car following the principles of the Ami.

Looking at the renders I wonder if the Oli will do that and the Fiat one will be a slightly more conventional take on it. I.e. it actually has a stereo and touch screen (possibly no cardboard roof) while Citroën has the true bottom end market positioning but both sit at the cheaper end of the range.

Above that VX, Pug and DS will use the fancier version of the architecture which is heavier and a more conventional look.

 

[porta]

The thing about the Oli/C3 is that’s the platform stated for the Jeep Avenger and that means the new Fiat 600…it’s all getting more confusing.
The Avenger is slightly smaller than the current Renegade, which is the 500X so they’ve built them the wrong way round
If you watch that video for the ‘lingotto’ centenary, there’s a brief hint at headlamp/grill which looks very much like the centro’
600 https://www.carscoops.com/2023/05/2...guised-but-with-its-mascara-on-in-new-photos/

 

[StevenRB45]

The thing about the Oli/C3 is that’s the platform stated for the Jeep Avenger and that means the new Fiat 600…it’s all getting more confusing.
The Avenger is slightly smaller than the current Renegade, which is the 500X so they’ve built them the wrong way round
If you watch that video for the ‘lingotto’ centenary, there’s a brief hint at headlamp/grill which looks very much like the centro’

The platform itself is very configurable if memory serves.

So while it may technically be the same platform there are going to be multiple battery sizes, motors and even battery chemistries in the plan. Given the lack of a requirement for conventional power train you could make some pretty large changes as long as suspension mounting points, motor mounts etc. remained common.

So the stated goal for the Oli was to use a cheaper battery chemistry and lower capacity than the Jeep/Peugeot/DS cars and less powerful motor but make up the difference with light weight.

That would leave a gap for Fiat to slot in to I suppose.

 

[porta]

The platform itself is very configurable if memory serves.

So while it may technically be the same platform there are going to be multiple battery sizes, motors and even battery chemistries in the plan. Given the lack of a requirement for conventional power train you could make some pretty large changes as long as mounting points etc remained common.

So the stated goal for the Oli was to use a cheaper battery chemistry and lower capacity than the Peugeot/DS cars and less powerful motor but make up the difference with light weight.

That would leave a gap for Fiat to slot in to I suppose.

The avenger 4x4 is slated to have petrol (and later full electric probably with a range of 500 metres as where are they going to stick everything)

 

[StevenRB45]

The avenger 4x4 is slated to have petrol (and later full electric probably with a range of 500 metres as where are they going to stick everything)

The Avenger isn't on the new Platform it's on a revised CMP platform. So same one that's under the Mokka, Corsa, 208 etc. I'd not be surprised if 600 is on that as well. This makes piston ones easy as it was engineered for that. New C3 is also slated to be based on that.

The new platform electric only is labelled STLA and is under nothing so far the Oli is the first car it's under technically but not released yet.

 

[AndyRKett]

The Avenger isn't on the new Platform it's on a revised CMP platform. So same one that's under the Mokka, Corsa, 208 etc. I'd not be surprised if 600 is on that as well. This makes piston ones easy as it was engineered for that. New C3 is also slated to be based on that.

The new platform electric only is labelled STLA and is under nothing so far the Oli is the first car it's under technically but not released yet.

New 2024 Fiat 600 electric SUV spied for the first time - pictures | Auto Express

Pictures of the new Fiat 600

www.autoexpress.co.uk

Spy shots of what is supposed to be the Fiat 600, this is said to be a Cross over rather than an SUV so more akin to 500L replacement than a 500X

My understanding from the rumors I have heard is that the 500X replacement will be on the same platform as the Mokka

One thing to bear in mind is that with the launch of the 500e and with Fiat needing all other models updating are they going to go the full electric route now and bin any plans for any future ICE cars opting for all future models to be all electric. The 600 as an example is reported to be an electric only model.
I can't place those wheels but there is something distinctly Citroen/Vauxhall about them.

 

[porta]

The Avenger isn't on the new Platform it's on a revised CMP platform. So same one that's under the Mokka, Corsa, 208 etc. I'd not be surprised if 600 is on that as well. This makes piston ones easy as it was engineered for that. New C3 is also slated to be based on that.

The new platform electric only is labelled STLA and is under nothing so far the Oli is the first car it's under technically but not released yet.

Yes, I know I’m kind of contradicting my own thoughts, but every time there’s a ‘teaser’ there seems to be a different slant. Yes it’s now a common platform but, if the panda is to be a ‘sub-compact’ on a new platform, then it’s going to have to sit below the avenger/600.
The Oli has some write ups on CarScoops which, on its ruminations about the panda/Centro, seems to get its pictures and write ups from Italian and Croatian press which doesn’t help the confusion as it’s the 500L plant that’s to get the 600 to build.
I just want what is promised for Panda, a small (ish) basic car with a 4x4 option. Looks like it’s ‘wait n see’, but it’s about time we got an iconic Fiat instead of defaulting to another brand under the Stelantis brand…much like the mito starting off as a punto replacement (that’s according to someone at slough) like the Skoda that became the Audi A2 (can’t have those upstarts having a better looking car)

 

[StevenRB45]

Yes, I know I’m kind of contradicting my own thoughts, but every time there’s a ‘teaser’ there seems to be a different slant. Yes it’s now a common platform but, if the panda is to be a ‘sub-compact’ on a new platform, then it’s going to have to sit below the avenger/600.
The Oli has some write ups on CarScoops which, on its ruminations about the panda/Centro, seems to get its pictures and write ups from Italian and Croatian press which doesn’t help the confusion as it’s the 500L plant that’s to get the 600 to build.
I just want what is promised for Panda, a small (ish) basic car with a 4x4 option. Looks like it’s ‘wait n see’, but it’s about time we got an iconic Fiat instead of defaulting to another brand under the Stelantis brand…much like the mito starting off as a punto replacement (that’s according to someone at slough) like the Skoda that became the Audi A2 (can’t have those upstarts having a better looking car)

CMP is a very flexible platform...it's under both the Vauxhall Corsa and the Citroën C4 if you looked at those side by side without opening the bonnet you'd never guess on the basis of dimensions, driving experience, interior or exterior styling.

STLA is set to be even more so...but we shall see. They certainly have form for using the same bits very differently and have got better over the years at differentiation of the brands.