Technical Panda headlights always on - and recall

[puntodeltathema]

Hi all

I normally lurk in the 500 section though this seems to be a Panda-specific issue.

I'm a small-time FIAT fixer and have a customer who has just bought a 2012 Panda (312 series, new shape) and the headlights are always on when the ignition is on. The stalk switch does not alter this condition.

There was a recall for headlights in 2016 following complaints that the headlights would randomly switch off intermittently, usually in conjunction with indicators being used or turning the wheel.

The initial cure was a software update but it was discovered (after a little while) that this then caused the opposite problem of not being able to switch the lights off (as above). Another great day for FIAT software developers...

I understand there was then a *second* phase to the recall whereby the switch stalk was replaced and reprogrammed to the car. Which solved the problem. I'm guessing my client's car has had the first bit done but not the second.

My question is: does anyone know if the second stage can be done via fitting a new switch and doing a Multiecuscan proxy alignment, or is it a FIAT-only job (it would be if a further software update was involved).

Asking because ideally I would avoid passing my customer into the hit and miss world of Fiat customer service....but if I have to, I guess it is what it is :bang:

Ho hum, the great Turin mothership doesn't make it easy for us sometimes

Many thanks in anticipation (but more in hope than expectation....!)

Nick
www.auto500.co.uk

 

[The Pretender]

Defect stalk switch.

 

[puntodeltathema]

Thanks - so I fitted a brand new stalk switch today (luckily not full price..) which did precisely *nothing* to fix the situation where the headlights are always on.

I did a proxy alignment in Multiecuscan for good measure but no difference.

There are two persistent errors which are not clearable in the body computer:

B12CB-1A - Cruise Controls from Multi-Function Stalks (CSM) - signal low
B1045-13 - Exterior light switch - open circuit

These errors align exactly with ones reported earlier on this forum by someone who checked for errors after the initial recall. The first one is of course especially odd as no 312 Panda has cruise control....

Is there anyone still around who had the original recall done, and knows what FIAT did in the second phase (to cure the lights always on issue triggered in the first phase?).

My guess is there is some kind of software update which is needed, as well as replacing the stalk switch. (Maybe the software update was actually to undo the one done in the first phase!)

Is it literally only main agents who can do the body computer software (I guess in practice firmware) updates, or do some of our more advanced specialists also have this facility? With the departure of Chris Variava in Nottingham I can't think of a main dealer who would have the customer service ethic to be able to focus on this issue, especially five years' hence.

Though maybe a general service and update at a main agent (exceptionally) is worth stumping up for to get this resolved... if Euro 5 cars are still getting software updates.

Any insights welcome, especially from those who were maybe around in 2016 when the two-phase recall was happening (or who have wrestled with the problem more recently...)

Many thanks in anticipation - this one has got me stumped!

Nick

 

[puntodeltathema]

Incidentally - disconnecting the multi-switch plug (which did not affect the lights always on condition) produced a different error code:

B1012-15 - Rotary light switch

along with a similar one for the wiper switch.

Which tends to suggest it's not a wiring issue.

Nick

 

[murphyv310]

It's not the switch. It's been discussed before.
The body computer has been spiked and the only way out is replacement unfortunately.

 

[varesecrazy]

Thanks - so I fitted a brand new stalk switch today (luckily not full price..) which did precisely *nothing* to fix the situation where the headlights are always on.

I did a proxy alignment in Multiecuscan for good measure but no difference.

There are two persistent errors which are not clearable in the body computer:

B12CB-1A - Cruise Controls from Multi-Function Stalks (CSM) - signal low
B1045-13 - Exterior light switch - open circuit

These errors align exactly with ones reported earlier on this forum by someone who checked for errors after the initial recall : Nick

+1 on the Cruise being odd..

Bigrinks was looking into all of this @14 months ago.. Lockdown..
Seemed to look a lot harder than most.. but nothing definitive

I wonder if the Ypsillon suffered it too..?

Its certainly not 'a rare thing' to happen with the 312

Charlie

 

[murphyv310]

Hi.
There are too many electrical/electronic issues on the 312.
As an electronic engineer all my life I've read through many posts here and I firmly believe there are issues that need to be properly resolved. My woes stared with my Panda City Cross a few months ago with SS failing and very intermittent. Some here said.... Battery..... At 86% there was no way I'd consider replacing the battery even Fiat said it was the battery. Eventually I found the Vacuum booster switch was faulty, this restored SS so the battery diagnoses was clearly wrong. Then a month later all of a sudden fuel smell and very sluggish performance with some hesitation. No codes no EML. A merry dance ensued with myself changing the obvious, the purge valve was stuck shut but I only found that out after removing it from the car, again nothing showed up. There was only one parameter out on MES which was the temperature reading was - 40c but the dash readout was OK. Removing the the plug made the ecu think it was cold, so very odd.
Eventually the dealer said it was the ECU, CAT and temp sensor, so again a stab in the dark, I refused to pay the £1800 bill stopped the work and sold the car.
The Marelli electronics isn't the best and its not cheap. £233 for a purge valve..... Someone is having a laugh.

 

[murphyv310]

I also have been told on good authority that there is a proper sequence for disconnecting and reconnection of the battery. Make sure the doors are unlocked and are shut. Release the bonnet. DO NOT open any door and wait 15 minutes. After that release the earth terminal first and proceed to remove battery or whatever you are doing. On refitting connect the positive first then ensure you fit the earth cleanly and on the first attempt. If its badly done remove and wait another 15 minutes. The idea it to do the connection without it not connecting first time as this causes spikes. Once connected wait another 15 minutes before opening doors and resetting clock etc.
This is common practice on modern cars but rarely done. Some vehicles are fairly immune to spikes but others are not. I'd be inclined to follow the above.

 

[gar074]

I also have been told on good authority that there is a proper sequence for disconnecting and reconnection of the battery. Make sure the doors are unlocked and are shut. Release the bonnet. DO NOT open any door and wait 15 minutes. After that release the earth terminal first and proceed to remove battery or whatever you are doing. On refitting connect the positive first then ensure you fit the earth cleanly and on the first attempt. If its badly done remove and wait another 15 minutes. The idea it to do the connection without it not connecting first time as this causes spikes. Once connected wait another 15 minutes before opening doors and resetting clock etc.
This is common practice on modern cars but rarely done. Some vehicles are fairly immune to spikes but others are not. I'd be inclined to follow the above.

Have I got this right? Shut the doors, release the bonnet, don't open any door for 15 minutes?

So, given that, unless you've got very long arms, to release the bonnet you either need to be inside the car, or outside and reaching in, the only way of satisfying this sequence is to sit in the car, close the door, release the bonnet, and then sit there for 15 minutes before opening the door?

Or have I misunderstood?

 

[murphyv310]

Have I got this right? Shut the doors, release the bonnet, don't open any door for 15 minutes?

So, given that, unless you've got very long arms, to release the bonnet you either need to be inside the car, or outside and reaching in, the only way of satisfying this sequence is to sit in the car, close the door, release the bonnet, and then sit there for 15 minutes before opening the door?

Or have I misunderstood?

Honest I was sober.
I should have said open the bonnet and then shut the doors have a cuppa or two for 15 mins then disconnect the battery

 

[gar074]

Ah, OK. That's marginally less daft, I suppose.

 

[murphyv310]

The reason for waiting for 15 minutes after closing the doors is it gives the system time to shut down. The body computer is last to hibernate. Pulling the battery pre hibernation can cause corruption on the EEPROM and lead to faults or worse still total failure.
Connection is less likely to cause problems but its still advisable to let the system initialise before opening doors etc.

 

[Leroypanda]

I was reading this while the advert for the new ev 500 was on, Should go well...

 

[puntodeltathema]

Bigrinks[/USER] was looking into all of this @14 months ago.. Lockdown..
Seemed to look a lot harder than most.. but nothing definitive

Thanks for the lead, Charlie (your forum handle always raises a smile by the way!)

I've been back over Bigrinks comprehensive investigations and this is exactly the situation I am in. I was coming to the same conclusion.

I wonder if anyone has got success with a main agent (outside of the now quite old recall campaign)? If so, which main agent!!

Some years ago I tried to get the Alfa network to focus on a quite convoluted process to update navigation maps on a particular series of Uconnect unit, covered by an obscure service bulletin - and only Chris Variava in Nottingham would give it the time of day. And fair play the saw it through to the end. They're part of Stoneacre now but wonder if their service ethic is as it was....

Nick

 

[puntodeltathema]

The reason for waiting for 15 minutes after closing the doors is it gives the system time to shut down. The body computer is last to hibernate. Pulling the battery pre hibernation can cause corruption on the EEPROM and lead to faults or worse still total failure.
Connection is less likely to cause problems but its still advisable to let the system initialise before opening doors etc.

Thanks Trevor. I'm always pretty careful with battery disconnection/reconnection but will note this....

 

[g8rpi]

Can you turn the lights off and on with the actuator function in Multiecuscan?
If not it is 100% a body computer issue. If you can, can you see the stalk switch function (position) change in MES when you move it?


Robert G8RPI

 

[rroope]

Sorry to bump this thread, having the same issues on a Ypsilon 2012 846. Have replaced indicator/wiper stalks with no difference. Fault I'm getting is:
B12CB-1A Cruise Control From Multi Function Stalks (CSM) - PERMANENT.

Interestingly, I disconnected the headlights to force a rethink (to no avail), and the error codes for the DRL's and Dipped Beams are also in the B12 block. Indicators and side lights were in the B10 block.

Can this be forced to be reset / recoded on AlfaOBDD? Also, I can't see any way of "reprogramming the stalk unit" on either system.

Dipped Headlights are stuck on, DRL's will activate manually on MES, Light stalk is reporting as being in "Auto" mode - car doesn't have this, so it seems the BC is noting no signal from the sensor?

OR DO I JUST NEED TO GO TO CHRYSLER/FIAT FOR A SOFTWARE UPDATE?

Thanks Guys

 

[Panda IIs]

Sorry to bump this thread, having the same issues on a Ypsilon 2012 846. Have replaced indicator/wiper stalks with no difference. Fault I'm getting is:
B12CB-1A Cruise Control From Multi Function Stalks (CSM) - PERMANENT.

Interestingly, I disconnected the headlights to force a rethink (to no avail), and the error codes for the DRL's and Dipped Beams are also in the B12 block. Indicators and side lights were in the B10 block.

Can this be forced to be reset / recoded on AlfaOBDD? Also, I can't see any way of "reprogramming the stalk unit" on either system.

Dipped Headlights are stuck on, DRL's will activate manually on MES, Light stalk is reporting as being in "Auto" mode - car doesn't have this, so it seems the BC is noting no signal from the sensor?

OR DO I JUST NEED TO GO TO CHRYSLER/FIAT FOR A SOFTWARE UPDATE?

Thanks Guys

Hi, if it helps here's my experience with stalk/clock spring replacement for Panda 2013 4x4. I was having a recurring issue with the airbag warning if you turned the steering full lock in either direction (so not your headlight problem). The warning light would go away on a restart but return each time the steering went towards full lock.

I'm replying to address the specific issue programming point you raise; the stalk/clock spring assembly (for Panda 319) does not need to be "programmed in" I'm not sure if the situation is the same for the Lancia version?

 

[rroope]

Thanks, yeah very helpful, I’ve been coding / programming / messing around with FIAT group cars for years, I was the Stilo Forum Moderator on this very forum a while ago! I didn’t think anything had changed as they do not show up as a “node” on the can info but wanted to double check!

 

[Panda IIs]

Thanks, yeah very helpful, I’ve been coding / programming / messing around with FIAT group cars for years, I was the Stilo Forum Moderator on this very forum a while ago! I didn’t think anything had changed as they do not show up as a “node” on the can info but wanted to double check!

My pleasure. Maybe you can help with another slightly “off topic “ issue?

My blue & me module failed a while ago (with the attendant battery drain and flashing odo) I pulled the unit and replaced it with the earlier USB interface which plugs into the head unit. However I’ve had conflicting information about programming out the module (and therefore stopping the flashing ODO). Some say you can (without a blue and me module) others report that you can? Any thoughts?