Technical Panda classic headlight bulbs

[thebiglad]

Hi all was fiddling about today with Pippa and thought I would just have a look at the headlight bulbs, because the light is so poor.

Picture 1 shows a std old-style bulb with it's adaptor


Picture 2 shows std bulb with adaptor removed


Picture 3 shows std H4 pattern bulb with adaptor fitted.

I also took a pic of the difference between headlight strength and the H4 one shone out much better. Unfortunately didn't show in the pic as it's too bright here today.

This leads me to believe that it would be possible to replace the existing bulbs with for example Xenon gas ones easily available on Ebay and make a big improvement.

I also wonder whether removing the anti-dazzle cup within the headlight would help also. I've done this on other cars and it didn't muck up the beam pattern but DID give more light.

In view of the colour of the light I still believe that a wiring modification will brighten things up as well - a direct earth perhaps???

Cheers
Dave


Just thinking about this a little more and it seems to me like this:

The old style bulb didn't have much of a shield to guide the dipped beam, whereas it's much more obvious on an H4 bulb,so removing the anti-dazzle cup within the headlight might well be a goer. Following this line of thinking, and bearing in that the H4's 3 locating tags won't engage in the Panda headlight, this might be a way to swap from a RHD dipped beam pattern to a LHD one, merely by rotating the bulb about 30° in it's adaptor?

 

[Dragon Man]

using the old original wiring to power relays is a far better way. you get lots more light output. i used audio amplifier cabling to power the lights and ran some new earths.

the H4 style bulbs are many times better than the old globe style type. well worth getting a set.

these are things i have done on my panda, firstcar-Y10 was the guy that told me about it at a car show.

the down side to this is that your dim dip resistor no longer dim dips and you have to disconnect it.. if you do not when you turn the side lights on, the H4 will come on low beam too.

 

[thebiglad]

using the old original wiring to power relays is a far better way. you get lots more light output. i used audio amplifier cabling to power the lights and ran some new earths.

the H4 style bulbs are many times better than the old globe style type. well worth getting a set.

these are things i have done on my panda, firstcar-Y10 was the guy that told me about it at a car show.

the down side to this is that your dim dip resistor no longer dim dips and you have to disconnect it.. if you do not when you turn the side lights on, the H4 will come on low beam too.

Hi DragonMan - dim/dip? I don't think I've got that on ours ??????

Dave

 

[purple haze]

Relays is the way to go..

I will be doing this mod on my Toyota.

 

[AndyPanda4x4]

Hi DragonMan - dim/dip? I don't think I've got that on ours ??????

Dave

When you turn your lights on the first click when the ignition is on or engine is running after a second or so the main headlight bulb will come on dim (ie not very bright). I think they were classed as "driving lights" to fit with rules of some countries on the continent which required lights to be on during the day aswell as at night. My Sierra and MK1 Astra used to do this aswell.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Hi all was fiddling about today with Pippa and thought I would just have a look at the headlight bulbs, because the light is so poor.

Picture 1 shows a std old-style bulb with it's adaptor


Picture 2 shows std bulb with adaptor removed


Picture 3 shows std H4 pattern bulb with adaptor fitted.

I also took a pic of the difference between headlight strength and the H4 one shone out much better. Unfortunately didn't show in the pic as it's too bright here today.

This leads me to believe that it would be possible to replace the existing bulbs with for example Xenon gas ones easily available on Ebay and make a big improvement.

I also wonder whether removing the anti-dazzle cup within the headlight would help also. I've done this on other cars and it didn't muck up the beam pattern but DID give more light.

In view of the colour of the light I still believe that a wiring modification will brighten things up as well - a direct earth perhaps???

Cheers
Dave


Just thinking about this a little more and it seems to me like this:

The old style bulb didn't have much of a shield to guide the dipped beam, whereas it's much more obvious on an H4 bulb,so removing the anti-dazzle cup within the headlight might well be a goer. Following this line of thinking, and bearing in that the H4's 3 locating tags won't engage in the Panda headlight, this might be a way to swap from a RHD dipped beam pattern to a LHD one, merely by rotating the bulb about 30° in it's adaptor?

Sorry but NO NO NO on so many levels!

Firstly you cannot use standard H4 bulbs, they're the wrong base, you must use P45T based bulbs. I don't see what adapter you're using, you mention it but don't include it within the pics. Adapters are available, but are scarce and expensive so I wouldn't bother with this route IMO.

You cannot remove the cap over the bulb, the Pandas headlight units are refractor units, not reflector. Doing this will adversely affect the beam pattern.

Get 55/60watt P45T bulbs and you'll be legal and won't blind every on coming motorist with a badly setup beam pattern Relaying the wiring and refreshing it will also probably see a notable increase in light performance

 

[firstcar-Y10]

:yeahthat:...only less shouty
Think the 'adaptor' referred to was just the spring clip to secure the bulb.
But yes, relaying will increase the output and it's perfectly possible to get uprated bulb options with the correct base on without knocking the beam pattern off

 

[thebiglad]

Sorry but NO NO NO on so many levels!

Firstly you cannot use standard H4 bulbs, they're the wrong base, you must use P45T based bulbs. I don't see what adapter you're using, you mention it but don't include it within the pics. Adapters are available, but are scarce and expensive so I wouldn't bother with this route IMO.

You cannot remove the cap over the bulb, the Pandas headlight units are refractor units, not reflector. Doing this will adversely affect the beam pattern.

Get 55/60watt P45T bulbs and you'll be legal and won't blind every on coming motorist with a badly setup beam pattern Relaying the wiring and refreshing it will also probably see a notable increase in light performance

Std 55/60w H4's go straight in, using the spring clip retainer as per the pictures.

The beauty of using std H4's is that they are available in such a wide range of functionality, that's why I wanted to see if they fit - which they do.

 

[panda1408]

The headlight unit is not designed for a H4 bulb, you said in your original post that the locating tabs on a H4 bulb do not fit into the headlight, to me that makes it obvious that the bulbs will be no good as they cannot be fitted as intended using the tabs to locate them in correct place.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Std 55/60w H4's go straight in, using the spring clip retainer as per the pictures.

No they do not, or perhaps they do, as much as the square pieces go through the triangle holes :bang:


If they fit so well then why has it taken 2 decades of everyone using P45T bulbs correctly instead of H4's??


Lets take it back to basics.

This is a H4 bulb and this is an original Panda P45T bulb and they both have very different bases.

This is the rear of a P45T headlight unit, as fitted to the Mk2 Panda's - no room for 3 prongs / legs.

This is the positioning hole on the P45T headlight unit, and the tab on the bulb which fits within it aligning the beam pattern correctly.

This is a P45T based bulb sitting correctly in a P45T housing.

This is a H4 bulb, sitting in various different positions in a P45T housing - see how they are not compatible and no matter what you do it WILL NOT FIT

Get a 55/60watt P45T based bulb like I've originally advised (the one on the far right)

 

[thebiglad]

Well I tried to help guys, but you obviously have a different opinion so I'm going to leave it.

I don't think any more replies telling me how wrong I am will be constructive to the forum but that's your choice.

I know what I know and I'm going to leave it there.


Dave

 

[rustypanda]

You can buy the halogen bulb as a conversion we have them at work for the old buses h4 to look at, but with the old round base. Iv got lots but all 24v

 

[homeward]

Well I tried to help guys, but you obviously have a different opinion so I'm going to leave it.

I don't think any more replies telling me how wrong I am will be constructive to the forum but that's your choice.

I know what I know and I'm going to leave it there.

I understand where you're coming from... -- although (and there's always an "although" or a "but", isn't there...?!) I have to say that I think no-one was criticizing; just trying to help.

This is by far and away the friendliest and most helpful section of the forum (and no sniping, or being clever (and rude) sods -- which seems to be de rigueur in some parts...); and if you met us, on this side of La Manche, you'd find us extremely friendly, knowledgeable, but slightly insane.

There is more experience, as well -- and given freely -- than anywhere else I've ever encountered. Some of which has led me to make the 60/55w p45t bulb replacement the first thing I do with each of my classic Pandas (including having the temerity to do it in VmanC's workshop, when collecting Betty from being restored...)!

You are free to do what you want to your Panda. No-one is going to stop you. But many will tell you what works best....

 

[thebiglad]

I understand where you're coming from... -- although (and there's always an "although" or a "but", isn't there...?!) I have to say that I think no-one was criticizing; just trying to help.

This is by far and away the friendliest and most helpful section of the forum (and no sniping, or being clever (and rude) sods -- which seems to be de rigueur in some parts...); and if you met us, on this side of La Manche, you'd find us extremely friendly, knowledgeable, but slightly insane.



You are free to do what you want to your Panda. No-one is going to stop you. But many will tell you what works best....

When I first joined I would have agreed with those sentiments, but not now.

I've seen and had a brush with a few of these so-called "friendliest forum members who won't tell me what to do" - and they do exactly that !!!

I started this thread because I KNOW from hands-on experience that there is ALWAYS more than one way of looking at a problem, not just the Fiat way.

However it has been made abundantly clear to me that my contribution using "out of the box" thinking is not welcome, so I'll just leave it.

Regretfully and slightly saddened

Dave

 

[firstcar-Y10]

When I first joined I would have agreed with those sentiments, but not now.

I've seen and had a brush with a few of these so-called "friendliest forum members who won't tell me what to do" - and they do exactly that !!!

I started this thread because I KNOW from hands-on experience that there is ALWAYS more than one way of looking at a problem, not just the Fiat way.

However it has been made abundantly clear to me that my contribution using "out of the box" thinking is not welcome, so I'll just leave it.

Regretfully and slightly saddened

Dave

We drive Pandas, we like boxesYou know that standard Panda headlights are easily upgraded by putting a candle on the dash so obviously it's something a lot of folks have played with before. Nobody's just trying to shout you down for experimenting (well most of us aren't..MEPtioning no names) but it's a path many of us have tried before and when decent bulbs are out there that slot straight in that's the path most people settle on. Mine are relayed with straight replacement halogens and they're the best headlights I've ever used. (the spots in my bumper stopped working at some point about 18 months ago and I haven't got round to looking at them yet because frankly I don't really need them)
H4s will go in and you'll get much brighter lights, but they sit too far back in the reflectors as they don't locate right, hence the worry about beam pattern. If you are going to experiment with them that's the thing to look at and play with when they're in so if you can get them right keep us posted.
Now stop being grumpy and get back to playing with the car. You know what everyone's worried about, now prove us wrong

 

[onemanmade]

When I first joined I would have agreed with those sentiments, but not now.

I've seen and had a brush with a few of these so-called "friendliest forum members who won't tell me what to do" - and they do exactly that !!!

I started this thread because I KNOW from hands-on experience that there is ALWAYS more than one way of looking at a problem, not just the Fiat way.

However it has been made abundantly clear to me that my contribution using "out of the box" thinking is not welcome, so I'll just leave it.

Regretfully and slightly saddened

Dave

Really sorry you feel this way, I think the tone may have come across slightly differently than MEP intended?

I hope your experience on the forum isnt tainted, its a great and helpful place, and sometimes we can get a little passionate about helping, and the best ways to do things we have found so far. I have always had a great experience on this forum, and yes I have been proved wrong (and right!) about some things, we all want to help each other fundamentally.

Saying that If you have found a better way, test it out and let us know! Could be in a wee whiles time that this is the "done way"

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

I didn't mean for it to come across bad, that's the only think with forums, great for sharing info but cannot express voice tone to well

 

[Alixcompo]

I thought MEP was being very helpful and not patronising at all.
It takes a lot of effort to compile a photo explaination.

Plus I don't think anyone on here has a problem if it turns out that they are wrong.

We wouldn't post on here if we were worried about learning something new/alternitive.

 

[purple haze]

Your all always wrong and I'm always right..... End of story..:devil:

Ok, I echo everyone's replies.... Grab some of that lovely local wine and carry on regardless. Tone can never be understood on forums, text messages etc etc.

I say all this on the understanding that we can all come to visit you for our panda camp...if not I take it all back..

 

[thebiglad]

Your all always wrong and I'm always right..... End of story..:devil:

Well I'm glad we got that sorted out - phew!

Ok, I echo everyone's replies.... Grab some of that lovely local wine and carry on regardless. Tone can never be understood on forums, text messages etc etc.

I say all this on the understanding that we can all come to visit you for our panda camp...if not I take it all back..

You would all be more than welcome to have a Panda camp at our place. Just bring plenty of euros and don't expect a shower block !!! DIY you know - there are plenty of bushes and trees around.

Just getting stuck into a Karlsquell beer ( 4.7% and 30 cents a can), very therapeutic :yum: