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Orville, the C3 (Pic Heavy)

Introduction

As some may know the wife's DS3 (a car I never got on with due to being both diesel and terrible) has gone.

So Orville has replaced Roxy.



Yes its named after the green nappy wearing bird puppet..anywho it is a 110ps 1.2 petrol turbo flair with 0 additional options. So yes that green is actually the only free colour, white is 260 quid! However wife wanted green so score.

Interior is a very nice place to be (yes thats an official moomin):


Has cool door cards:


Unlike the ds3 there are no day one rattles but the glovebox is still hilariously small.

It has squishy but supportive seats, I can fit behind my own driving position in the rear, also unlike the similar DS3 based on the same chassis it doesn't make 3 toes on my left foot go numb after 10 minutes due to poor pedal ergonomics.

Touch screen works very well with android auto, my only complaint is the only physical heating control is demist, everything else needs to be on the correct screen.


It also has a reversing camera that appears on it, the car has 3 cameras in total. One for backwards, one for reading the speed limit which can be sent to the speed limiter/cruise control at the touch of a button. Finally It has the built in dash cam..which is good for making videos of Bini drivers lashing past at 50 in a 30.


Engine wise..


Cheeky intercooler..


Engine is the best part of the car by a long way, sounds fruity, has a big wedge of torque between 1500 and 4.5k rpm, is absolutely a bit overkill for the car. Handling is best described as "comfortably numb" and the gearbox can only be described as the same old crap PSA have been churning out for 20 years. But the ds3 was uncomfortably numb...with a crap engine and the same gearbox so progress is progress. Kind of car you can make stealthy progress and surprise a few people in given the absolute lack of any distinctive features other than the intercooler and rear disc brakes.

Quality wise it's a mixed bag, panel fit is millimetric, paint finish is perfect, interior fit is bang on (none of these were right on the DS3). But there's obvious signs of cost cutting in places as well so not all good.

Overall though really likeable car despite the DS3 similarities as it fixes the most annoying bits (driving position, engine, ride quality, seats and ergonomics) and is still funky. (y)
So this is just really likeable..

In winter it tries to light the front tyres quite a lot if you lean on it but otherwise, like driving a bubble bath..

Top Gear road test wise..it's clearly terrible, but when you are confronted by a green pikachu lookalikey that sounds like a mildly annoyed flat 6 and is like driving your front room it's really hard to care.

It's just a feel good motor..
 
So 4.5k miles in...

few small niggles, rear lights alternately fog up but then clear, better than the ds3 fish bowl I guess..

Oh and the A.C., you'd probably not notice this in a normal British summer. Once it gets over 25 degrees out side it struggles to keep a nice temperature without an uncomfortably noisy fan speed. It could be that the system fitted isn't high enough capacity, it might be heatsoak from the intercooler and radiator meaning the A.C. rad isn't cooling efficiently (the air isn't that cold either). Either way it's a little annoying driving along with it sounding like a food blender.
 
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Not had this a year..but it's first service time according to the car after 4700 miles. Guess with the short trips it does really drag down the variable intervals.

First a little bonus for twin air owners..notice two things first a 1100kg 110bhp petrol car managing 53mpg, second the stop start is active and working.


Any who regards the service it was a formality, I was informed that the watery rear lights are a recall item so have been replaced with modified ones at no charge. It needed a puncture repair (nail in tyre so wasn't going down) for 15 quid and they are updating the software on the touch screen to the latest version.

But today we have Boreville, this is Orvilles cousin specced by someone who is not my wife.


So shark grey and black and a 1.2 puretech 82 bhp Feel, this is actually the spec all the reviews favour rather than our full fat version. As it offers most of the good bits at less money. It certainly looks identical except for the colour and fog lights on the front, has the touch screen with Android auto, cruise control, climate control with a.c., Dab radio and 4 electric windows.

But it's the little things that make the difference...so interior wise, it has a horrid rubberised gear knob, hand brake and plastic steering wheel not soft leather. Incandescent bulbs not led interior lighting, a rubber boot on the gear lever not leather. Also no chrome strips on the air vents, round the gear lever or dials.


While I hate to be the perceived quality guy these little things really lift 2 otherwise identical interiors, even the seat fabrics are the same. But the main touch points are better by miles. That and no parking sensors, rear view camera e.t.c. lose it that semi premium feel.

Engine is the main difference though, the none turbo is a nice city car, and the un-corrupted lag free throttle is lovely and the engine revs freely. The very noticeable difference though is the lack of mid range compared to the turbo, and the gearing which in 5th at 70 has the engine spinning 1000 rpm higher. The puretech turbo swallows motorways easily with effortless mid range, this is much more traditional city car. The chassis feels happier though, occasionally you get the impression the turbo produces more than it is happy with and it can get scrappy. Do miss the 4 discs though, disc and drum set up while fine is not as positive. Fuel economy is unchanged as you drive the faster car less hard. How ever as soon as I hit the hills up to mine I missed the tub badly..not driven a car in long time where a hill beat the available power but despite being flat I could only manage 56mph up a hill the Turbo or Mazda could easily hit 80 leptons if given a similar prod.

Finally one for the baby = soft roader brigade..


It'll fit a travel system a bit if shopping and 3 people though it's a bit of a squeeze.
 
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Spent less time in this as of late, my wife can't really afford to put fuel in it as shes in month 11 of maternity leave and has not been paid for months at this point.

Good news is, it works just fine and even has working stop start despite being laid up for weeks at a time occasionally. Fuel economy is late 40s early 50s despite morrisons cheapest fuel and no long trips. The cheap toss Citroen fits instead of rear brake discs are bit of a mess and don't clean up when you drive it but that's about the only issue.

Bad news is occasional use makes the flaws stand out alot. If you drive it regularly you learn how to drive it smoothly and you tune everything out. Driving it from time to time you have to learn it..and theres quite a few quirks to learn.

Drive it once a month and oh my..well 1st it appears the turbo waste gate only closes when the engine is a little warm. Seems sensible protects the cold engine from damage, small problem with that either side of my house are 2 f*** off hills which an 82bhp Na petrol with monster gear ratios really struggles with. For a comparison the Mazda with a cold engine pulls 5th and reaches the top of the national limit hill at 50. The C3 requires a down shift to 3rd..or manages 35.

Then theres every control.. like they are all from different cars, accelerator pedal, brake and clutch all operate in different ways, long clutch, 1mm brake pedal, a throttle pedal that never seems to deliver what you asked for, either less or more but never quite right. You get used to this but everytime you hop out of car that isn't like this it really jars. Then add the low geared steering, soft springs and wedge of torque to that.

Also now I've fitted an android auto head unit to the Mazda I've realised the Citroen is missing a key thing. You can control guidance and music volumes from android auto separately on the aftermarket unit. If you mute one ( I tend to just have traffic alerts on as a preference) it kills both in the Citroen.

Finally the lack of a rear interior light makes fitting a child seat in the dark an absolute mission...

Despite all this I like this car it's a fun object..and absolutely does the job as a commuter scooter if you aren't that bothered about driving. My issue is mainly I hop out of a car built by a company that builds cars for people who enjoy driving into this and back again. That and the other car is bigger so it's easier to fit stuff in it.
 
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Bit of an update on this...

It was a PCP deal and originally we had no idea intention of keeping it.

Won't cover exactly why as I already have elsewhere but makes sense to pay the balloon on this and keep it.

Does mean it's getting a bit of a birthday next month..1st Mot and service but a few other things as well. Basically stuff I wasn't going to do for the next owner to enjoy.

Drivers door mirror got knackered 3 months after we got it, new one is going on at the service. About 15 months in my wife had a disagreement with a fence that defeated both parking sensors and rear view camera by jumping out behind her. The dent is going to be pulled and door repainted.

The Factory fit Michelins are going as they are terrible in snow to be replaced with a set of all seasons. Finally new wipers as well as it has factory fit blades.

Tidies up nice



This colour/spec combo is uncommon and no longer made so it's rare version of a common car, similar to when I had my Punto 85 elx. To give you an idea..there are currently 1100 or so C3s of this generation for sale nationwide, of them 2 are green with a white roof, and 1 is green and white with no air bumps. 0 for sale in this engine, gearbox and trim..

One concern for the Mot, rear discs are shot, absolutely scored up a treat. Simply because this car has suffered my wifes maternity leave where it would sometimes sit for weeks followed shortly by lockdown. Basically they've corroded to the point they won't clean up with use.

Shall see if we can score those under warranty but I've budgeted for replacements as well. Despite all the sitting oddly stop start has always worked.
 
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So to do list done pretty much, rear door is waiting as it needed taxed, and insured as well as serviced and m.o.t.

Other than that it's now much more liveable, spent a bit of time properly cleaning the glass so you can actually see in low sun. New wipers actually work properly, not huge things but nice quality of life stuff.

In a similar vein mirror is replaced, it still actually worked and looked OK but had a big hole you could see from the drivers seat through which the indicator shone.

Also discovered my wife had never moved the steering wheel from its most retracted position or adjusted the seat height. Pulled it out about two inches, pumped it up a bit and now I no longer feel like it needs more lumbar support as I'm not constantly reaching forward. Also the extra height means my legs fit better.

My wife never tends to move anything but we have a similar length torso as I'm really 5'6 with too long legs fitted so we can get away with a similar driving position and mirrors. Now much easier to drive smoothly as I'm not sitting on the floor arms stretched forward legs bent slightly too much, knee touching the dash.

Finally tyres are on, should be much better in winter, also more plush riding than it is already. Currently the best all seasons money can buy.

The Michelins were lethal in winter so should be a big step up, the only negative point is they remove driving enjoyment..but it's a C3 :ROFLMAO:

If it proves reliable longer term I am tempted to get it derestricted to 145bhp and 199lb/ft of torque rather than 108 and 151lb/ft which in a car this light would be rather mad.

Also got a quote for heated seats...another nice to have.
 
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Soo this is 4 now...time flies. Mot and year 4 service on Tuesday.



Currently our only car for a little while as Mazda has finally decided to act it's age.

So using a supermini as a family car...surprisingly doable. I've always said the Mazda 3 wasn't very space efficient and in terms of interior space this is bigger or the same in most dimensions. Boot is the only issue it's full with a pram when the Mazda is half full.

Luckily he's too old for a pram now...so only problem really is the radio is terrible. Literally awful to the point of being distracting...it's meant to switch between DAB and FM when possible but it doesn't match the 2 up so when that happens the radio plays the last 2 seconds again or skips 2 seconds. Should probably switch that function off and then it won't be, but the aftermarket unit in the Mazda manages it flawlessly. Maybe a little unfair with that car having 2 aerials at either end of the cabin. But given both FM and DAB seem crap it's vaguely annoying or would be if it didn't have the option of android auto.

Otherwise still stand by everything I've said about it, definitely flawed but very likable and nice place to spend time. Has been 100% reliable so far, the rear brakes may be an mot fail..they no longer stop cleanly feels like a warped disc if you press the pedal hard and bring the rears in.

Currently hoping for an mot fail on rear discs and pads, as the warranty provides 750 quid cover for mot fails if it passes its getting booked in and done as otherwise it's mechanically perfect (as you'd expect for a car with 17k miles on it). Yes I said I'd do them last year...but covid happened and I was driving the other car.

In terms of long term proposition, boost never gets old in a supermini definitely, but the reality tends to be you use the torque for relaxed cruising at a good pace. Never feels strained, which absolutely suits the armchair seats and cushioned ride. Ever since I discovered "fast" mode on the climate control I've not had any bother with it.

Due to the current insanity of the car market, paid 7200 for it last year, replacing it would be somewhere over 9500 now if not 10.
 
Not that I'd specifically planned for it to fail the mot on brakes..but as mentioned above it failed the mot on brake discs.

Is there such a thing as a tactical MOT fail? Let's say if brakes weren't covered under the warranty it wouldn't have been presented in that condition.

Anywho happy as I've ever been with a failed MOT.
 
So with this being main family car...I want to mess with it of course I do :ROFLMAO:.

May get some Phillips 150% bulbs shortly as after the projectors in the Mazda headlamps are not great. They provide a good pool of light but the range is not what I'm used to.

Have started hiding things in it...so it now has a footpump, gauge and also jump leads secreted about the car.

Of course if it was an aircross not a normal C3...it'd have a double level boot floor to hide things under but it isn't so jump leads are inside the spare wheel other stuff is in my wife's vw group leasing bag she stole from the DS3. Also if it was an aircross...it'd have a rear interior light but no. You must be punished for using a supermini as a family car so it has 3 interior lights.. exactly the same as the old Mazda but all of them only light the front cabin.

However it's actually doing just fine...50mpg after the 30 odd of the Mazda is nice, nice and comfy to bowl about in as well as quiet. Cabin is definitely big enough with the width of it though boot is a little on the small side compared to the bigger car.

But doing what it needs to and sitting in the background..


And as with the Mazda that's the point...doesn't have to be a car that top gear would rave over as long as it does the job.

Big shout out to the new brakes though, absolutely saved my arse the other night when a van was fully on my side of the road after a blind corner. Mazda would not have stopped like this did, 4 discs and the relative lack of mass means they can be literally shocking in an emergency stop in a good way.
 
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The conflict between "character" and the car being clearly terrible continues.


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It is hard to overly negative about something that absolutely does the job every day.

As I've said...it's a terrible steer...but somehow it doesn't matter.

To me it captures what a car needs to be...not necessarily what I want a car to be. So hit something got a puncture...unlike most cars of its era it's got a spare.
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I hit a fallen branch the other day...was expecting damage, because it's designed to cope with Parisien parking not a mark. Hit a black bit, bounced off.

Happily doing between 45 and 55mpg, lovely and quiet at the and comfortable at a 70 mph cruise, copes with crap roads wonderfully.

Drives like utter shite if you've ever driven a car that was set up properly as all the controls are poorly set up and the suspension has no nuance it's just soft.

But stick a family in it and it's got all the torque and brakes you'd ever need for relaxed and comfortable progress regardless of how steep the hill is. You can work round the controls and dim witted suspension set up with familiarity to end up with a smooth and comfortable ride 95% of the time. Combine that with a good android auto implementation, comfy seats and decent speakers and in many ways that'll do.

Cabin is big enough, boot is just about big enough, it has been reliable and exterior dimensions wise its pretty small for a modern car. It's not exotic...it's not fun in a conventional sense unless you enjoy the feeling of being vaguely out of control in a small boat the turbo and this chassis provides when pressing on.

As a petrol head...I should dislike it, but I appreciate things that are fit for purpose and it is.

Finally this is interesting..and may explain surprising turn of speed. When rolling roaded on 98 octane e5 ...they appear to gain 7bhp..but 20lb/ft of torque over claimed figures. Oddly enough it only gets Vpower...
 
As it has recently presented me with a bill for 1k...thought I'd update this.

Top and bottom of the 1k is direct injection. Inlet valves are coked, given this was used just around the doors for a long time it's not unexpected.

My options are Citroën does it for a grand or I take it to SPT tuning in Leicester for a walnut blast for about 400. However option 2 comes with a 6 hour, 400 mile round trip and probably an over night stay. So I think option 1 will he probably be the winner in terms of convenience.

Did consider Terraclean but seems a bit snakeoil...

Otherwise the top mounts are also broken, makes a lovely knock also you steer left to right these are to be replaced by the warranty.

So 5 years we've had those + brake discs/pads.

Despite the existing faults it's fine to drive in general, just occasionally decides to run on 2 cylinders for a few seconds everyonce in a while. Suspension doesn't seem to make any appreciable difference.

So as it is she's still ploughing on with summer duties and returning mid to late 40s and the odd early 50. With the additional mileage stop start is now pretty epic, it sat for 15 mins the other day before restarting, not bad for a near 5 year old battery running climate pack etc.

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Will get it fixed up as it's a nice car and there's nothing on the market I'd really want to replace it with. Needs a timing belt next year, that'll be about 450 quid as well.

But cars are cars...prefer preventative maintenance to catastrophic failure. I do find it vaguely amusing I spend so much money and effort keeping a wheeled picnic area mechanically A1. But its much more looked after than it ever looks.
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To finish off the above...

Car has been in the garage 4 times around this, I was deeply unhappy with the lack of warranty coverage for inlet valves. After some back and forth with the garage and warranty company, a gentleman from the Citroën group i'm on suggested sidestepping both and contacting Citroën head office. I did a 70% goodwill contribution was secured so a £1071 bill became a more palatable 321 quid. The difference was used to pay for a new timing belt and water pump at 550.


Picking it up this afternoon 871 quid later I have a C3 with new front suspension, the mildly notorious belt in oil replaced with the latest version and hopefully all of it's horsepower back. That should *fingers crossed* cover off the none servicing stuff it was going to need in the next few years.

I will say it was entirely liveable as was..and 98% of C3 owners would not have changed the timing belt so really the bill could have been 320 quid if I'd not elected for that.

Just hoping the car is undamaged and correct at pick up, and fully plan to blast it up the hill on the way back to make sure the flat spot has buggered off.

Oh and it went to Scotland then Yorkshire last week...was great for that did nearly 50mpg in it's mildly hobbled state.

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Somewhat annoyingly this is not 100% right.

I'm not annoyed at the garage, as the remedial work they have done has transformed the car. It is driving massively better than it was in terms of handling, throttle response, and speed and 98% of the little age related knocks and rattles it had picked up have gone.

But it did randomly misfire once yesterday..oddly the hill it used to be guaranteed to do it up it hasn't it was just leaving a roundabout and accelerating up to motorway it had a bit of a stumble in 4th although nowhere near as bad as it was.

The inlet coking was definitely affecting it, but unfortunately, it doesn't appear it was causing the misfire. The old THP engines were notorious for having weak high pressure fuel pumps, now the breathing is sorted out I wonder if it's actually just not quite getting enough fuel. The other thing could be the learned fuel trims were wrong in the ECU after all the issues it had with coking and it's still re-learning...hopefully.

To be fair after the misfire I leaned on it multiple times hard and it didn't break up again so fingers crossed.

Had warranty renewal through 270 quid for the year..think we'll be taking that up given we've made a profit every year so far.
 
MOT this month, no concerns as you'd expect given what's been done suspension and brakes wise in the last 12 months.

Annual mileage has rocketed now it's the only car, checking the MOT history it had only 12k on it October 2020 it's on 27 now. At least the brake discs have stayed clean and tidy with the regular use they'll likely last twice as long miles wise as the 1st set.

Extra miles are bringing noticeable tyre wear on the front. The worst tyre (front left) has 5mm left on it..so 2mm before they hit the winter performance dead indicators. However will be swapping them front to rear at the service to get the chunkier one's on the front for any snow. I'm very happy with the life of them, 15k miles pretty much so far and probably same again with the rotation. Not bad at all given the torque available, but the car is pretty light for a modern car.

They are going to read the codes again at the service, misfire still definitely present. It will be getting fresh plugs (5 year life) and filters, I'm kinda hoping the misfire damaged a plug and will go away with a fresh set..we'll see.
 
Sailed through, tyres rotated.

Misfire may have been overdue plugs...and the carbon build up was just noticed because I was chasing the misfire. Garage said they should have done at 4 years..which is odd given they did the year 4 service.

Plugs are changed, not really noticed any difference but it was running perfectly since the valve clean most of the time it may have just been the spark was bit weak in certain conditions.

We shall see if it comes back... hopefully done.
 
Soo is it fixed???

Not quite but it's done it twice now since September, so good as. Both times it's done it would be heavy 4th gear acceleration on to a dual carriageway but so infrequent I can't be bothered to chase it down any further. If it gets worse...it's warrantied but at the minute it's 99.99997% perfect and has no codes so there's nothing for the garage to see and it's 1000 to one shot you'd get it to do it on test drive.

It's also basically transformed since after all the work. Old plugs and pre-inlet coking work you drove it from 2000 to 4000rpm for good progress. Less than that it felt recalcitrant and you were also liable to have fall on it's face with misfire. As a result you spent a fair bit of time listening to angry 3 cylinder noises as it gets a bit vocal over 3k.

Now it's happy to run 1200 rpm to 2800rpm and will make decent progress while doing so, bottom of the torque curve has filled out. You can still run it out to 4.5k+ if you want to but there's no real reason to given torque surfing is quieter, nearly as fast and much more economical.

Runs better than it ever has ironically, as it's a combo of all the work and it's now properly run in, last tank of fuel was 46mpg..in winter.
 
This might not seem like a clear and present danger in winter but coolant has been around minimum for a few weeks.

Not entirely sure how much it had in it post service I've never topped it up before now but it's hitting a lot of miles more than it used to so conceivable I'd not noticed it dropping.

There's a tidemark in the expansion tank a good chunk below minimum which would suggest at one point it sat below minimum for some time. I'd like to blame the previous owner.. except it would have entirely been me earlier in its life when it used to do barely 4k a year and have the bonnet opened once a season or so to check the engine hadn't escaped.

Topped up to max although it was still slightly warm so expecting slightly below maximum when it's fully cold as it seems to vary level with temp a bit.

We shall see how long it takes to work its way back to minimum or if it does at all. The manual states "it is normal to top up coolant between services" but obviously if it's losing more than the odd top up then it may be they've not quite sealed the new waterpump properly in July.

Either way it's warrantied so keep an eye on it..see what occurs. Rather hope it's not anything as it's beautifully behaved at the moment otherwise and the misfire has not re-occured for months.

Got a 3/4s of a litre of coolant and about 1.25 litres of deionised water...so we've got plenty spare at least..given max to min took about 300 ml.

Somewhat hoping the fluid extra volume enables it to retain heat a bit better. Probably not but the climate control does a good job of pegging the gauge at 60 when operating temp is 90. Once up to temp it stays there so don't think it's a thermostat issue just the engine is very low friction to the point it has basically no engine braking. As a result unless you're boosting it doesn't really heat the coolant much as even the exhaust goes through a charge cooler before being fed back in. But in bad weather you're unlikely to be engaging "bring me the horizon" throttle openings. So you can do 15 miles and not reach 90 degrees.
 
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