Opinions on the Toyota Auris

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

This morning we dropped off my wife's sister at the rear entrance - Calton road - to Waverley station as she is returning home to Devon. Mrs J's sister needs assistance with travel and to access this you ring from the drop off point intercom and a wee while later a man appears with trolley and, if needed, push chair. This takes time before he appears so we let her sit in the car rather than stand out in the cold shelter provided.

Almost as soon as we stopped a private hire taxi pulled in behind us - a Toyota Auris Estate Hybrid - I was getting out of our car to open the boot and the Taxi driver asked if he was OK where he was or was he blocking me in. Anyway after this exchange we stood, in that sort of embarrassed way you do when you are with a stranger, so I asked him how he was getting on with the Auris. Turns out he had a Prius before it which went to starship mileage with out any problems at all. The inside was getting a bit tatty so he chopped it in for the Auris which he'd had for nearly a year (I think he said) again without any issues. He said he especially liked it because it is very quiet and easy to drive smoothly, fuel consumption is excellent and they just don't seem to break down. He knows other taxi drivers with Prius who, he says, are equally pleased and wouldn't go back to straight petrol/diesel. He let me have a quick look round whilst he awaited his passenger and I have to say I'm very impressed! It's likely to be some time before I think of replacing the Ibiza estate we have at present but when that time comes a used Auris estate might well be in the frame - It'll be fun researching it in depth and finding out about the battery side of which I know nothing (and that "frightens" me just a little).

I have never owned a Toyota but have always been very interested in the brand because one of my oldest friends spent much of his working life as a Toyota factory technical rep. (He would be the guy the garage could call in if there was a technical dispute regarding one of their vehicles). I also find the way Toyota do the Hybrid "thing" especially interests me. Their gearbox setup has to be, in my humble opinion, by far the best and there's no conventional starter motor as they use the, permanently engaged, motor in the transmission to start the petrol engine, so no ring gear/starter pinion problems! In fact when you really start looking into them there are so many nice wee things you begin to notice I think I would buy one right now if only they were cheaper!

 

[PuntoHowTo]

The Tipo is cheaper than the astra though. With regards to depreciation and ease of future sale, I get the impression the SB1500 is looking for a car to keep long term, so those factors aren't especially important. With regards to parts availability, I thought the Tipo used a lot of existing Fiat components.

He’s also looking for something with faultless reliability and hats built like a tank hence the Toyota....

The Astra is better value not necessarily cheaper, you can keep a car for a long time but the more value it loses and the more expensive it is to repair the more likely it is to meet the scrapyard sooner.

None general service items will cost a lot more on a Fiat than a Vauxhall as there are many more Vauxhall’s scrapped,things like bumpers headlights, interior trim other fixtures and fittings.

When I had my Saab I didn’t buy Saab parts for brakes I bought Vauxhall parts because I knew they where the same. Wishbones, steering racks engine parts all very different and much more expensive to buy as there where much fewer Saab’s in scrap yards compared to Vauxhall’s.

 

[g8rpi]

He’s also looking for something with faultless reliability and hats built like a tank hence the Toyota....

The Astra is better value not necessarily cheaper, you can keep a car for a long time but the more value it loses and the more expensive it is to repair the more likely it is to meet the scrapyard sooner.

None general service items will cost a lot more on a Fiat than a Vauxhall as there are many more Vauxhall’s scrapped,things like bumpers headlights, interior trim other fixtures and fittings.

When I had my Saab I didn’t buy Saab parts for brakes I bought Vauxhall parts because I knew they where the same. Wishbones, steering racks engine parts all very different and much more expensive to buy as there where much fewer Saab’s in scrap yards compared to Vauxhall’s.

Have you owned a recent model Astra?

Robert G8RPI.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Oh well! Regarding the Auris hybrid. Just finished reading a long term test done by the Sunday Times May 2018. They seemed to quite like the car but criticized it's lack of torque and subsequent sluggish acceleration. I suppose, if I ever get anywhere near to buying one, a test drive will sort that out for me. At the end of the article they do say that a new electric power train (motor?) is scheduled for introduction with the new model. Don't know when that is to be/was introduced.

 

[StevenRB45]

Oh well! Regarding the Auris hybrid. Just finished reading a long term test done by the Sunday Times May 2018. They seemed to quite like the car but criticized it's lack of torque and subsequent sluggish acceleration. I suppose, if I ever get anywhere near to buying one, a test drive will sort that out for me. At the end of the article they do say that a new electric power train (motor?) is scheduled for introduction with the new model. Don't know when that is to be/was introduced.

I was looking at them recently and the CVT wail had me more looking at the Kia Niro (which uses a 6 speed auto unit not a CVT), although the new Corolla does look a bit more interesting than the old Auris the reviews for the drive train seem similar.

I'm going to go look at them both next year to replace the Mazda when it goes to the wife.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I was looking at them recently and the CVT wail had me more looking at the Kia Niro (which uses a 6 speed auto unit not a CVT), although the new Corolla does look a bit more interesting than the old Auris the reviews for the drive train seem similar.

Hmm? I haven't driven one yet so have no experience but one of the things that particularly attracts me to the Toyota is the fact that it doesn't use a conventional belt type CVT. So I'm surprised to hear that it whines? The drive train is very cleverly managed via an epicyclic gear cluster. The thought of a highly complex 6 speed auto fills me with horror!

Now I really must drive one to see if the whine you speak of is typical and/or objectionable.

 

[Schumi2001]

Oh well! Regarding the Auris hybrid. Just finished reading a long term test done by the Sunday Times May 2018. They seemed to quite like the car but criticized it's lack of torque and subsequent sluggish acceleration. I suppose, if I ever get anywhere near to buying one, a test drive will sort that out for me. At the end of the article they do say that a new electric power train (motor?) is scheduled for introduction with the new model. Don't know when that is to be/was introduced.

You need to adapt your driving style for a Toyota Hybrid. They use a power split device which feels like a CVT and can make the car feel like it's lacking in torque. However, this can't be the case, as the electric assistance gives you 200+ Nm of torque, which matches the 1.4D4D. You also get the torque of the petrol in addition, but it doesn't quite work out that you can add the two together.

However, it does mean that it feels like you're not making progress, especially compared with the engine note - but it means the engine is working at its most efficient and the 0-40mph dash from the lights can be done as quickly as just about anything else on the roads.

 

[StevenRB45]

Hmm? I haven't driven one yet so have no experience but one of the things that particularly attracts me to the Toyota is the fact that it doesn't use a conventional belt type CVT. So I'm surprised to hear that it whines? The drive train is very cleverly managed via an epicyclic gear cluster. The thought of a highly complex 6 speed auto fills me with horror!

Now I really must drive one to see if the whine you speak of is typical and/or objectionable.

Whine is the wrong word, but the constant holding of revs under acceleration is apparently better managed in the new Corrola but still present (I say apparently as I've not driven it). The reviews seem to suggest the engine still emits a flat moo when you get after it..but depends on how you drive it.

Given the 6 speed auto is covered by a 7 year warranty..I'd not be that concerned on the Kia front.

Neither will be massively exciting but given the amount of hills my car has to deal with the engine revs racing away whenever it's under load could get annoying. However when the time comes my local Toyota/Mazda dealer let's you borrow cars for the afternoon for test drives so will be able to run it round properly without a salesman present and get a proper idea.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Whine is the wrong word, but the constant holding of revs under acceleration is apparently better managed in the new Corrola but still present (I say apparently as I've not driven it). The reviews seem to suggest the engine still emits a flat moo when you get after it..but depends on how you drive it.

Given the 6 speed auto is covered by a 7 year warranty..I'd not be that concerned on the Kia front.

Neither will be massively exciting but given the amount of hills my car has to deal with the engine revs racing away whenever it's under load could get annoying. However when the time comes my local Toyota/Mazda dealer let's you borrow cars for the afternoon for test drives so will be able to run it round properly without a salesman present and get a proper idea.

AAAH! Now I understand. You must remember you're talking to a man who sold, and then later got involved in maintaining Dafs! They really knew how to run at constant revs!

 

[DaveMcT]

Electric motors and generators are now supposed to be so efficient I do wonder why they even bother with a normal gearbox. Why not make it a fully electric transmission with battery to absorb the peaks and troughs in power demand and engine to keep it charged.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Electric motors and generators are now supposed to be so efficient I do wonder why they even bother with a normal gearbox. Why not make it a fully electric transmission with battery to absorb the peaks and troughs in power demand and engine to keep it charged.

Hi Dave. Have you looked at some of the excellent video on you tube about the Toyota system? I can recommend them as a very interesting way to pass some time. They're nearly there regarding what you suggest here. That's part of why I'm attracted to Toyota in particular.

 

[anc]

If you want reliability I'd go for any Toyota. I'm saying this as a Toyota owner. Bought a Yaris Verso 1.3 just before I sold my Cinq. Can't match the Cinq for mpg but the back seats split into 3 and fold down into the floor beneath the front seats making a decent sized minivan. Good for GF's IKEA trips and two big dogs.
Here's one on ebay (nowt to do with me) as an example, yes it's ugly but it grows on you.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Toyota-Yaris-1-3-VVTi-auto-2001MY-Verso-GLS/254147233620?hash=item3b2c5b0754:g:LpAAAOSw5q9ceqkn

 

[Schumi2001]

Electric motors and generators are now supposed to be so efficient I do wonder why they even bother with a normal gearbox. Why not make it a fully electric transmission with battery to absorb the peaks and troughs in power demand and engine to keep it charged.

Isn't that what GM did with the Ampera? - it was awful and inefficient in comparison with the Toyota hybrids.

(Similarly, BMW do it with the i3 REx - just doesn't work very well when you've depleted the plug-in charge)

 

[StevenRB45]

The inefficiency with using the engine as a generator is in having two energy conversions. 1st from liquid fuel to gas in the internal combustion engine, then into electrical energy at the generator to go into the motive power battery.

This gives you 2 sets of transmission losses, also you carry 2 forms of motive power at all times but only use the petrol engine occasionally, at all other times it's dead weight.

The Hybrid scavanges energy that would otherwise be lost making the engine more efficient it doesn't usually draw power directly from the engine itself.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

The inefficiency with using the engine as a generator is in having two energy conversions. 1st from liquid fuel to gas in the internal combustion engine, then into electrical energy at the generator to go into the motive power battery.

This gives you 2 sets of transmission losses, also you carry 2 forms of motive power at all times but only use the petrol engine occasionally, at all other times it's dead weight.

The Hybrid scavanges energy that would otherwise be lost making the engine more efficient it doesn't usually draw power directly from the engine itself.

although in this situation you can use the engine at peak efficiency at all times that it is charging batteries, making the petrol engine as efficient as posssible without having to worry about things like a manual gearbox or the engine having a torque curve that matches the demands of driving from 0 - 100mph, It can run at a constant speed continuously with minimal losses, and the generator can be designed to make maximum use of the engine speed and torque.

 

[Schumi2001]

That's essentially what the Toyota 'power split device' is doing - hence why people have a feeling that you're revving the nuts off the engine and barely gathering speed. Only the PSD cuts out the middle man of charging losses.

 

[DaveMcT]

I believe that mechanical transmissions are much more efficient than we are led to believe. Conveniently for the car makers, the alleged high losses massage the quoted engine power figures.


We are always told that engine power is calculated by knocking 15% off the road dyno output. So a 100HP car is only putting 85 into the road. Frankly I dont believe it's that bad. The Panda 100HP gearbox at full chat need to absorb 15bhp (11.25KW). Something that small with no cooling system would quickly get dangerously hot.

On electric drives, the latest synchronous motors are 95% at best with electronic frequency control to keep them in the sweet spot for a given speed. A generator should be the same but will only run at the most efficient speed for it and the engine. That's dropping 10% to 15% overall but the engine will always be running at it's most efficient so should more than pull back the driveline losses.

Tesla have recently bought Maxwell who make batteries and power capacitors. It's thought they'll be using the capacitors to soften the effects of high braking energy and hard acceleration. Battery efficiency drops at high current (in or out).

 

[SB1500]

Well, it lasted a while but I’m back to wanting a Panda. There’s just something about it.

 

[DaveMcT]

Well, it lasted a while but I’m back to wanting a Panda. There’s just something about it.

I like my 100HP but beginning to regret not having a normal 1200 or even diesel and stuff the road tax fines they'll soon be subject to.

I do like this though. V6 with 200bhp has to be the one.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2007-57-Citroen-C6-Exclusive-2-7HDi-auto-lounge-pack-1-owner/112106908544?hash=item1a1a17ab80:g:8oMAAOSwV0RXvekh

 

[Schumi2001]

Nice to look at whilst you're waiting for the AA.